To Infinity War and Beyond: the MCU Thread with Spoilers

[Hugh Akston]

How so?

[Pham Nuwen]

What hell it must be. I got the impression the guy vision fingerblasted* is aware of everything that is happening but has absolutely zero control. A puppet. Creepy.

*sorry but that's what i'm calling it

[Hugh Akston]

That's the impression I got too, corroborated by Rambeau's account.

[Hugh Akston]

[Pham Nuwen]

I just finished the latest episode of WandaVision. I demand a new series with Darcy and Agent Woo going around solving cool mcu related mysteries. I have spoken.

[Kolohe]

I just finished the latest episode of WandaVision. I demand a new series with Darcy and Agent Woo going around solving cool mcu related mysteries. I have spoken.

I definitely think that the final scene of the final episode will have some set up and announcement of a spin off show for a supporting character, the way Boba Fett’s was. (It’s probably going to be something staring the Monica Rambeau character, as a YouTube recap pointed out, they made something of her goin thru the hex multiple times and rewriting her biology, and apparently she’s a superhero with super powers in the comic books)

(The second guess would be something with the twins, because they also have comic book stories, but I don’t think Disney wants to lean to heavily on kid actors in the Marvel production line)

[Pham Nuwen]

It's Jimmy and Darcy or I walk, Kolohe.

[Kolohe]

Careful, it’s icy out there in most of the country now.

ETA - aren’t both of them already in currently running sitcoms?

ETA 2 ok, only Park is in a network sitcom now, it’s not Dennings, it’s the other broke girl that’s in the Cedric the Entertainer show.

[Kolohe]

I’m not sure if the Great Reveal in WandaVision was actually lackluster, or if I have only myself to blame - in that watching every analysis & speculation video for prior episodes made this latest episode’s Big Twist underwhelming.

I will say, watching yet another analysis & speculation video improved my opinion of this episode, because there are indeed little things I always miss (and don’t necessarily require comics savvy)

[dhex]

The wife and kid are watching this but I will say whomever stuffed Kat Denning into a drum major outfit is a goddamn American hero.

[Pham Nuwen]

The wife and kid are watching this but I will say whomever stuffed Kat Denning into a drum major outfit is a goddamn American hero.

All give some. Some give all.

[Hugh Akston]

Gotta say I did not care for the ending of WandaVision. Big CGI jello battles just are not satisfying climaxes. Everything felt kind of perfunctory except for the philosophical debate between the Visions. Also I hope they find a way to make Fietro into the real MCU Pietro.

[Kolohe]

My principal objection is Hayward did nothing wrong.

Ok, maybe he’s an asshole that cut corners, but when the inquest hearings start, he’s going to be able to call a hundred witnesses testifying to the evil of Wanda Maximoff, and other evidence that Jimmy Woo, Darcy Lewis, and Monica Rambeau conspired to aid Wanda, and ultimately let her get away. You don’t to get to be where and what Hayward is without superior bureaucratic infighting skills.

[Hugh Akston]

If it's true that Hayward did nothing wrong, then it's a pretty scathing indictment of American society and government.

If the expected response to an immensely powerful women experiencing a psychotic break is to go in guns, drones, and androids blazing to start a fight they can't hope to win, it demonstrates not only a serious lack of empathy, but also a troubling willingness to learn from previous encounters where doing just that only provoked her.

[dhex]

the wife was kind of disappointed that they had the chance to do a work exploring human emotions and the depths of grief and instead turned it into the usual comic book stuff.

i dunno mang once they didn't kill harry potter (because the sacrifice is the whole point of christ you fucking muppets), so i asked her "how many times you gonna get YA burned til you YA learn?"

my witticism was not appreciated by anyone but me. common state of affairs, sadly.

[D.A. Ridgely]

the wife was kind of disappointed that they had the chance to do a work exploring human emotions and the depths of grief and instead turned it into the usual comic book stuff.

i dunno mang once they didn't kill harry potter (because the sacrifice is the whole point of christ you fucking muppets), so i asked her "how many times you gonna get YA burned til you YA learn?"

my witticism was not appreciated by anyone but me. common state of affairs, sadly.

That's an interesting take. If we use Aristotle's simplistic aesthetics, it's a comedy if everyone or almost everyone we like survives and a tragedy if they mostly die. A tiny sliver of dramatic works might be deemed christodies, not the least being, um, the New Testament and more tenuously, say, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Yes, as a study of grief and, in particular, grief as a sort of madness, WandaVision dropped the ball. Perfectly understandable there, given we're talking about show business, not art, and that far too many authors have killed off their cash cow protagonist before, from a business pov, they should have. And the Mouse is not interested in your catharsis, doesn't care if a prospective tentpole project doesn't make it into film studies classes except maybe "the economics of film" classes, and would be filming The Further Adventures of Christ if focus groups told them the ratings would be high enough.

[Kolohe]

I’m going to dissent and say it was a better exploration of grief and madness than the usual Hollywood fare, and, to practice women’s studies without a license, especially for a female character.

Your typical grief madness either is crazy quirky homeless guy haha he’s so funny like Fisher King, or borderline suicidal revenge seeker, like Death Wish, Taken, the majority of Mel Gibson film roles, and even Bourne over the long arc.

Wanda is different than either of these two archetypes. She retreats into the druggy euphoria of a dream world but instead of getting lost in a soap opera or literal drugs a la Requiem for a Dream, she has the power herself to create a new reality and bends people will to it. The Manic Pixie Dream Girl with actual serious and terrifying magic.

[D.A. Ridgely]

Wanda is different than either of these two archetypes. She retreats into the druggy euphoria of a dream world but instead of getting lost in a soap opera or literal drugs a la Requiem for a Dream, she has the power herself to create a new reality and bends people will to it. The Manic Pixie Dream Girl with actual serious and terrifying magic.

Which makes her preciously little different from the kid in the Twilight Zone "It's a Good Life"episode, albeit she had a known backstory as a motive. But it's still a "power corrupts" story. For everyone else, life give until it starts taking back and there's fuck all anyone can do about it.

[Kolohe]

Mouse’s other division spent about 20 hours over 40 years on a half assed meditation on mystical powers and the morality of and in their use, but Kevin Feigge was able to drill down on that in a little over two months.

[Hugh Akston]

I didn't read it as a 'power corrupts' story. Wanda's powers were more of a metaphorical magnification of her attempts to escape from her trauma, and the post-traumatic effects she was having on the people around her.

[D.A. Ridgely]

I didn't read it as a 'power corrupts' story. Wanda's powers were more of a metaphorical magnification of her attempts to escape from her trauma, and the post-traumatic effects she was having on the people around her.

So her grief justifies her holding an entire town in thrall?

If she'd just gone ahead to some empty field and created a town, people and ally, okay, maybe. But she's either indifferent or ruthless regarding all those real people she's just using as props for her fantasy. I'd call that a story of how power corrupts.

[Hugh Akston]

I didn't read it as a 'power corrupts' story. Wanda's powers were more of a metaphorical magnification of her attempts to escape from her trauma, and the post-traumatic effects she was having on the people around her.

So her grief justifies her holding an entire town in thrall?

If she'd just gone ahead to some empty field and created a town, people and ally, okay, maybe. But she's either indifferent or ruthless regarding all those real people she's just using as props for her fantasy. I'd call that a story of how power corrupts.

Not sure where you're getting me saying it was justified. People act out in weird ways when they have been traumatized, often without meaning to or even realizing they are doing it. Wanda's ability to literally live her own truth gave a more interesting visual/narrative angle on what other movies portray by having characters snap at other people or just stare offscreen.

[Jadagul]

the wife was kind of disappointed that they had the chance to do a work exploring human emotions and the depths of grief and instead turned it into the usual comic book stuff.

i dunno mang once they didn't kill harry potter (because the sacrifice is the whole point of christ you fucking muppets), so i asked her "how many times you gonna get YA burned til you YA learn?"

my witticism was not appreciated by anyone but me. common state of affairs, sadly.

I feel like the "coming back to life after the sacrifice" is also a big part of the point of Christ.

[dead_elvis]

and would be filming The Further Adventures of Christ

Now I'm super sad because I really want to see this show. Except that for all the awesome potential it would most likely be squandered.

Reminds me, I haven't caught the 3rd season of Black Jesus yet.

Wandavision was ok, but I think early episodes fell victim to the ironic goat fucker problem. Your spot-on recreations of lame sitcoms full of lame sitcom jokes is... just like watching a lame sitcom.

Also, I'm not sure what their intention was, but it's actually kind of impenetrable to someone not familiar with the MCU. Wife was lost half the time and didn't care for the show.

[D.A. Ridgely]

I didn't read it as a 'power corrupts' story. Wanda's powers were more of a metaphorical magnification of her attempts to escape from her trauma, and the post-traumatic effects she was having on the people around her.

So her grief justifies her holding an entire town in thrall?

If she'd just gone ahead to some empty field and created a town, people and ally, okay, maybe. But she's either indifferent or ruthless regarding all those real people she's just using as props for her fantasy. I'd call that a story of how power corrupts.

Not sure where you're getting me saying it was justified. People act out in weird ways when they have been traumatized, often without meaning to or even realizing they are doing it. Wanda's ability to literally live her own truth gave a more interesting visual/narrative angle on what other movies portray by having characters snap at other people or just stare offscreen.

Fair enough. I was responding to you not reading it as a power corrupts story. It's certainly a story about trauma and grief, but Wanda's near limitless power permitted her to run roughshod over an entire town when, as far as we know, she could have created new people for her little utopia rather than act as she did. My mother was schizophrenic and created significant drama for my father and me, but she didn't have superpowers so the neighborhood was safe.