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Hugh Akston
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Hugh Akston »

Warren wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:19
lunchstealer wrote: 25 Dec 2020, 23:51 The ghosts of Stevos past.

Too obscure for me.
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dbcooper
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Re: Twitter!

Post by dbcooper »

Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by lunchstealer »

nicole wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 09:14 This is the scariest shit I have seen in weeks

A - at least original tweeter seems likely to be ESL so reading is going to be easier with a bunch of dialects than listening. See Jennifer's discussion of knowing wordbreaks. Even if the words are all ones you know you can easily get screwed up by misunderstanding which syllables belong together to form a word in conversational rather than instructional speaking. It's like Boomhauer.

B - even I can correct some mishearing with subtitles on. We've watched a bunch of stuff that way. What's really funny is if one is watching dubbed content with subtitles on, and seeing where the dub is PG and the subtitles verge between PG-13 and R.

C - you live in a very very secure bubble.
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Jadagul
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jadagul »

There are definitely moves among some sectors of society that subtitles should be on everything everywhere because accessibility.
"It helps people with hearing issues! And there's no downside!"

And this bugs me because I fucking hate subtitles and they tend to really damage the experience of watching the movie for me.
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Ellie
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Ellie »

I've definitely seen a lot of discussion around Disabled Twitter about how captions help some people with some disabilities but are problems for other disabilities (for example someone who can only handle so much visual information at a time and gets overloaded if the screen has words AND pictures). So yeah, they should always be an option but never mandatory.

Anyway between watching a lot of stuff with heavy British accents, watching while kids are in the room being super noisy, or watching very softly on my phone while getting said kids to sleep, I absolutely only watch things that have captions.
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Jadagul
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jadagul »

Ellie wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 18:58 I've definitely seen a lot of discussion around Disabled Twitter about how captions help some people with some disabilities but are problems for other disabilities (for example someone who can only handle so much visual information at a time and gets overloaded if the screen has words AND pictures). So yeah, they should always be an option but never mandatory.

Anyway between watching a lot of stuff with heavy British accents, watching while kids are in the room being super noisy, or watching very softly on my phone while getting said kids to sleep, I absolutely only watch things that have captions.
Huh, I've only seen the first half of that discourse. The troll me wants to start dropping the second half of that argument in every time people start talking about how everything should have subtitles.

(Honestly, the troll me has a pretty solid case that I am actually genuinely who they're talking about in the second half of that crux. Written text is sufficiently compelling to me that I will ignore everything else that's going on in favor of reading it, unless I make a very active effort to ignore it. And that's probably not unrelated to the fact that I'm autistic! But I really don't like contextualizing facts about myself as disabilities that need accommodations.)
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Twitter!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I prefer being able to hear and understand dialogue but there are some shows, e.g., The Expanse, for which I've found closed captions helpful. I also prefer subtitles over dubbing for non-English language films and I turn on subtitles when I'm watching something late at night and want to keep the volume down.
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Jadagul
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jadagul »

Yeah, I should add/contrast that there are definitely times I like subtitles. The big one for me is in, like, ten-second gifs or video clips where maybe I don't want to have to turn on the audio at all!

But if I'm actually Watching A Movie, generally that stuff doesn't apply.
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Kolohe
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Kolohe »

Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 16:25 There are definitely moves among some sectors of society that subtitles should be on everything everywhere because accessibility.
"It helps people with hearing issues! And there's no downside!"

And this bugs me because I fucking hate subtitles and they tend to really damage the experience of watching the movie for me.
Huh, my studies of Jadagulism would have lead me to hypothesize that you would have the completely opposite take, absent this empirical data.

I’m a fairly fast reader, so I don’t have trouble with subtitles, and like others have said, enhance the experience for viewing material with heavy accents and/or weird audio levels. I would have guessed that you, Jagadul are also a super fast reader (& I still think that’s true), but I guess that nonetheless doesn’t necessarily make reading subtitles a pleasant experience.
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Jadagul
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jadagul »

Kolohe wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 21:28
Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 16:25 There are definitely moves among some sectors of society that subtitles should be on everything everywhere because accessibility.
"It helps people with hearing issues! And there's no downside!"

And this bugs me because I fucking hate subtitles and they tend to really damage the experience of watching the movie for me.
Huh, my studies of Jadagulism would have lead me to hypothesize that you would have the completely opposite take, absent this empirical data.

I’m a fairly fast reader, so I don’t have trouble with subtitles, and like others have said, enhance the experience for viewing material with heavy accents and/or weird audio levels. I would have guessed that you, Jagadul are also a super fast reader (& I still think that’s true), but I guess that nonetheless doesn’t necessarily make reading subtitles a pleasant experience.
I am a super fast reader. I am also not a visual person.

If you put subtitles up, I will not watch the movie. I will read the subtitles instead of watching the movie. If I wanted to do that, I would just read a book. Which often is what I do, but if I'm watching your movie I have chosen to do that instead of reading a book.

Also, if you're a fast reader subtitles tend to step all over the timing of a scene.

Image

It's possible to do them well enough that they don't, but that's rare, and sometimes is jarring in other ways because I'm just staring at them waiting for them to update.
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Kolohe
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Kolohe »

Fair enough, but I’d say most modern subtitles are a bit better than that (higher screen resolutions and sparser dialog help)

But that’s also why I’m a ‘subtitle is better than dub’ person for foreign language stuff, so I can can hear the rhythm and emotion in the original actor’s voices, even if I can’t understand them.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Kolohe
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Kolohe »

Subtitles are also getting better at not giving away spoilers through identification of the speaker of the dialog.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Twitter!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I would suspect relatively few mathematicians are visual people, though that's just a hunch.

The thing about reading subtitles versus watching the movie is that one can learn to do both simultaneously. I used to have the same problem and for many years refused to watch some great movies because they weren't in English but I got better.

Oddly enough, the less I know about a language, the easier it is to bifurcate my attention. If the movie is in German or most Romance languages, I'll catch a word or phrase of dialogue that doesn't quite square with the subtitles and I do find that distracting. If the film is in any Asian or Slavic language, my complete ignorance of the language lets me blissfully ignore what's being said.
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Highway
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Highway »

I'm like Jadagul in that if the words are there, I'll read them, and take some attention off the other things happening on the screen. Depending on the show, it can feel like reading your way through a program, rather than watching it. Sometimes that's necessary, but other times it isn't. And it really depends on who is timing the subtitles whether it fits with the show or not.

I don't really have a problem with subtitles on things that are just generally out in the world. I think that mechanisms to make them available are good for places where most people don't need them, but would not like to see it done in a way that doesn't impose them on everyone, such as the reflection systems some theaters have.
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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole »

Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 16:25 There are definitely moves among some sectors of society that subtitles should be on everything everywhere because accessibility.
"It helps people with hearing issues! And there's no downside!"

And this bugs me because I fucking hate subtitles and they tend to really damage the experience of watching the movie for me.
I mean, the downside is you spend all your time reading the subtitles and thinking about every discrepancy between them and the spoken dialogue. If we watch something in a foreign language I can understand I spend like half the time talking about how bad the subtitles are and if the thing is in English we both do it.
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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole »

Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 19:13 Yeah, I should add/contrast that there are definitely times I like subtitles. The big one for me is in, like, ten-second gifs or video clips where maybe I don't want to have to turn on the audio at all!

But if I'm actually Watching A Movie, generally that stuff doesn't apply.
For me the first category is also the category of “things that should just have been text to begin with” of course.
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Warren
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Warren »

I hate subtitles. But not as much as I hate network ads they drop in the corner that eclipse subtitles that are part of the video (usually because a character is speaking in an alien language). In fact I just HATE those things. It was bad enough when they were just logo watermarks, but now they have their own action and take up significant screen real estate.

The DVR is a life changer. If a character says something I don't understand, I can rewind and listen to them say it again. I generally give myself three attempts to figure it out before I turn on the subtitles, and then almost always turn them right back off.
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JasonL
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JasonL »

nicole wrote: 29 Dec 2020, 08:58
Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 16:25 There are definitely moves among some sectors of society that subtitles should be on everything everywhere because accessibility.
"It helps people with hearing issues! And there's no downside!"

And this bugs me because I fucking hate subtitles and they tend to really damage the experience of watching the movie for me.
I mean, the downside is you spend all your time reading the subtitles and thinking about every discrepancy between them and the spoken dialogue. If we watch something in a foreign language I can understand I spend like half the time talking about how bad the subtitles are and if the thing is in English we both do it.
Not for the first time I'm struck by the similarities of Nicolean habits of mind with those of my wife, for all basic outlook is wildly different in areas.
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Warren
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Warren »

The discrepancy between subtitles and spoken dialogue only irks me tangentially. I don't speak any foreign languages fluently, and it's rare that I'm reading subtitles when the spoken words are in English. Sometimes a character will talk for like thirty seconds in a language I don't understand and the subtitle will read "I want to go eat", and it will definitely register "What all are they not telling me". If I have the option to turn on subtitles only for 'translated into English', I like that.

The biggest problem with subtitles is my eyes are drawn to them. If there's something to read on the screen I'll inevitably read it. I wind up reading the subtitles that I don't need and not watching the show.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by lunchstealer »

Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 19:10
Ellie wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 18:58 I've definitely seen a lot of discussion around Disabled Twitter about how captions help some people with some disabilities but are problems for other disabilities (for example someone who can only handle so much visual information at a time and gets overloaded if the screen has words AND pictures). So yeah, they should always be an option but never mandatory.

Anyway between watching a lot of stuff with heavy British accents, watching while kids are in the room being super noisy, or watching very softly on my phone while getting said kids to sleep, I absolutely only watch things that have captions.
Huh, I've only seen the first half of that discourse. The troll me wants to start dropping the second half of that argument in every time people start talking about how everything should have subtitles.

(Honestly, the troll me has a pretty solid case that I am actually genuinely who they're talking about in the second half of that crux. Written text is sufficiently compelling to me that I will ignore everything else that's going on in favor of reading it, unless I make a very active effort to ignore it. And that's probably not unrelated to the fact that I'm autistic! But I really don't like contextualizing facts about myself as disabilities that need accommodations.)
Well that just makes you a neurodiverse activist of a certain flavor and as long as you downplay the 'don't need accommodations' part and just focus on the what's good for some people of diverse ability can be bad for people of different diverse ability point to say that subtitles mustn't be mandatory, troll you is woke af.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
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Jadagul
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jadagul »

lunchstealer wrote: 29 Dec 2020, 15:31
Jadagul wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 19:10
Ellie wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 18:58 I've definitely seen a lot of discussion around Disabled Twitter about how captions help some people with some disabilities but are problems for other disabilities (for example someone who can only handle so much visual information at a time and gets overloaded if the screen has words AND pictures). So yeah, they should always be an option but never mandatory.

Anyway between watching a lot of stuff with heavy British accents, watching while kids are in the room being super noisy, or watching very softly on my phone while getting said kids to sleep, I absolutely only watch things that have captions.
Huh, I've only seen the first half of that discourse. The troll me wants to start dropping the second half of that argument in every time people start talking about how everything should have subtitles.

(Honestly, the troll me has a pretty solid case that I am actually genuinely who they're talking about in the second half of that crux. Written text is sufficiently compelling to me that I will ignore everything else that's going on in favor of reading it, unless I make a very active effort to ignore it. And that's probably not unrelated to the fact that I'm autistic! But I really don't like contextualizing facts about myself as disabilities that need accommodations.)
Well that just makes you a neurodiverse activist of a certain flavor and as long as you downplay the 'don't need accommodations' part and just focus on the what's good for some people of diverse ability can be bad for people of different diverse ability point to say that subtitles mustn't be mandatory, troll you is woke af.
Sure, troll me is woke af. That's what makes him a troll!

I don't believe in this framing for the world. But I'm perfectly capable of phrasing the things I do believe within that framework if I'm more interested in the power play than in communicating what I actually feel.
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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

"saying 'socialism' where normies can hear it is wrapping a bunch of barbed wire around a bat, handing the bat to the GOP, and standing with your head in the strike zone."
--Lunchstealer
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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole »

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
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dbcooper
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Re: Twitter!

Post by dbcooper »

Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

"saying 'socialism' where normies can hear it is wrapping a bunch of barbed wire around a bat, handing the bat to the GOP, and standing with your head in the strike zone."
--Lunchstealer
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