Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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Professor Professorson
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Professor Professorson »

I would guess that the perverse incentives of social media combined with the fascination so many people seem to have with the royals is a nearly irresistible temptation. Even the Queen, who has shown remarkable restraint when you consider it, still limelights a little. Harry and Meghan seem to be, unsurprisingly, taking whatever they can get from an increasingly (in my opinion) narcissistic climate enabled by social media, with the added fact that they're starting from the point of "Duke and Duchess of Sussex".
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thoreau
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by thoreau »

If the question is whether her accounts of the royal family's behaviour are accurate, well, I wouldn't know.

If the question is whether the Royal Family should strive to be less racist (assuming that they were), the answer is yes. The normal way one handles this upon marrying into a family is asking their spouse to go have a talk with the family. Going to the press has rarely improved family relations.

If the question is whether the racism was in fact mostly from the hired help, well, part of being classy is not throwing the help under the bus. I don't claim any insight into management of a royal household, but high-status people who throw the help under the bus generally have more trouble down the road.

Finally, I've gotta say, no matter her race, she should have realized that she was destined to feel an outsider. She's an American woman of colour marrying into a family whose entire gig is about being hereditary custodians of British (but, really, English) identity. I'm not even sure how well a white European woman of a different nationality would fare in that family, unless she was from some Continental royal family herself. (Maybe.) This was going to be a shit show.

At the end of the day, she's joining the most privileged family (in every conceivable sense) on earth, monitored by perhaps the most rabid tabloid press on earth, and she tells the commoners that the hardest part of hanging out with rich hereditary snobs was skin color. Really? That was the hardest part of hanging out with the most congenitally privileged snobs on earth?
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Aresen
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Aresen »

Sometimes you need a Robespierre.
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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It worked for lord Mountbatten but the irish republican space program never really got off the ground after.
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Kolohe
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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The normal way one handles this upon marrying into a family is asking their spouse to go have a talk with the family. Going to the press has rarely improved family relations.
My understanding is that Harry did talk to the family, and the family stopped taking his calls.

And they don't have a sekrit internet forum to vent about family problems.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Eric the .5b »

Jennifer wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 16:50
nicole wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 16:34
Jennifer wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 15:52
nicole wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 15:23 Just extremely blowing my mind that people think she has literally any credibility. No clue why anyone would believe any of her claims at all.
From what little I know/knew about the situation (mostly stuff picked up via osmosis, or things like "noticing headlines in the sidebars of articles I actually read") -- one reason people might believe her is because she no-joke DID face a lot of really hateful racist bullshit. There was a Buzzfeed article last year which was little more than a straightforward collection on screenshots comparing how British tabloids covered the story "Kate Middleton does X" versus how the exact same tabloid covered "Meghan Markle does X." (Short version: Meghan got harshly criticized for the same behaviors for which Middleton received praise. Even something as innocuous as Markle's cradling her baby-bump while heavily pregnant was viewed as a bad thing.)
I mean, I saw that article when it was published and it seems like the burden is on them to show that it isn’t just cherry-picking from both sides.
?? I thought the selection of screenshots did that fairly well.
We are in the post-evidence era. Any evidence that contradicts what we want is to be dismissed as cherry-picking or manufactured.

If we have something against someone saying things that are completely consistent with all other evidence on a matter, we don't have to entertain anything at all they say. (I'm not sure what we're supposed to be holding against Meghan beyond her diversity and being willing to complain about racism, but whatever.)
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thoreau
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by thoreau »

Kolohe wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 17:46
The normal way one handles this upon marrying into a family is asking their spouse to go have a talk with the family. Going to the press has rarely improved family relations.
My understanding is that Harry did talk to the family, and the family stopped taking his calls.

And they don't have a sekrit internet forum to vent about family problems.
She must have trusted friends.
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thoreau
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by thoreau »

Honestly, I feel sorry for her. I can't claim to know who actually did what from what motive, but marrying into that family is guaranteed to be a shit show. I actually think they do something very important, but the same can be said of people who make sausage. Either way, behind the scenes it's a mess.

I really wish somebody had talked her out of joining that family. Nobody, aside from an upper-class Brit or very brave foreign nobility, should marry into that family.
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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thoreau wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 18:15 Nobody, aside from an upper-class Brit or very brave foreign nobility, should marry into that family.
What about Donald Trump?
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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Hugh Akston wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 18:41
thoreau wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 18:15 Nobody, aside from an upper-class Brit or very brave foreign nobility, should marry into that family.
What about Donald Trump?
I don't think even upper-class Brits or very brave foreign nobility should marry into Donald Trump.
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Aresen »

lunchstealer wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 18:49
Hugh Akston wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 18:41
thoreau wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 18:15 Nobody, aside from an upper-class Brit or very brave foreign nobility, should marry into that family.
What about Donald Trump?
I don't think even upper-class Brits or very brave foreign nobility should marry into Donald Trump.
The people who have married into Donald Trump's family deserve what happens to them.
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by lunchstealer »

"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Eric the .5b »

I almost linked that one earlier. The line "More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown." struck me as odd, though. Looking at a picture of the writer, I'm not sure he's old enough to have had a grandfather who did anything more than cheer the Blitz as a kid.

ETA: Ah, he's Northern Irish. So his grandfather could have been killed by rampaging royals, or vice versa.
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dhex
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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RUC wasn't that discerning when taking people for a drive and the paramilitary groups they played footsie with were less so. So entirely in play as an analogy, court adjourned.

Also it is entirely believable that the royal family did a racism but utterly incomprehensible that someone who could have hired an expert to explain what she was getting into, much less read available biographies and or talked to the dude she was marrying, somehow had no idea what the broad strokes outline is like.

She basically said "I am a careless moron" in public and half the world is clapping because the UK is full of bigots like no shit says the populations of India Ireland and all of history.

Fuck off you rich moron. You rich stupid fucking idiot. You married into a crime family and didn't even Google "Gambino" out of curiosity once and now we're supposed to be sad because they were mean to you? Because you're playing at being dumber than dirt rather than an American actress who thought she could outmaneuver these cunts like they haven't been at this shit for centuries?
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nicole
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by nicole »

"it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown" is basically the situation for most humans in most places and times, isn't it?
dhex wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 06:47 RUC wasn't that discerning when taking people for a drive and the paramilitary groups they played footsie with were less so. So entirely in play as an analogy, court adjourned.

Also it is entirely believable that the royal family did a racism but utterly incomprehensible that someone who could have hired an expert to explain what she was getting into, much less read available biographies and or talked to the dude she was marrying, somehow had no idea what the broad strokes outline is like.

She basically said "I am a careless moron" in public and half the world is clapping because the UK is full of bigots like no shit says the populations of India Ireland and all of history.

Fuck off you rich moron. You rich stupid fucking idiot. You married into a crime family and didn't even Google "Gambino" out of curiosity once and now we're supposed to be sad because they were mean to you? Because you're playing at being dumber than dirt rather than an American actress who thought she could outmaneuver these cunts like they haven't been at this shit for centuries?
This is the base case, essentially.

The maximally cynical case, which no one would ever have any reason to believe, is that she essentially has outmaneuvered them by playing on Harry's childish feelings about the death of his mother and of course having hostages. And this was her intention all along as someone who was always too ambitious to fulfill the role she took on as a royal princess and whose most important early public act in that role we now know was a lie.

But I don't know why anyone would ever think anything like that. It definitely seems more believable that she didn't know anything about Harry or the royals or what her job was going to be, and I definitely feel bad for the poor little millionaire celebrity person.
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Kolohe
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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whose most important early public act in that role we now know was a lie.
Honestly curious what this is refering to. I do not understand this reference.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by nicole »

Kolohe wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 08:16
whose most important early public act in that role we now know was a lie.
Honestly curious what this is refering to. I do not understand this reference.
They had a secret wedding before the public one.
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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And all the American conservative royalist stans can fuck right off as well. Go drive the sports bar right into a wall you bootlicking idiots
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by dhex »

"it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown" is basically the situation for most humans in most places and times, isn't it?
if you go back far enough, technically yes, but in the particular, not usually outside of conflict regions. and this particular particular is particularly particular for a number of reasons.
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Kolohe
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Kolohe »

nicole wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 08:27
Kolohe wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 08:16
whose most important early public act in that role we now know was a lie.
Honestly curious what this is refering to. I do not understand this reference.
They had a secret wedding before the public one.
Ok looking it up, that’s just a weird story, and mainly because it seems it was only three days earlier?

There were plenty of people back in my service days that did ‘two weddings’, one immediate after engagement at the courthouse so that the spouse health care and housing allowance benefits would be accelerated, and then a later one in a more formal ceremony with the families and the rigamorole. But these things were not a mere days apart from each other.


ETA - but apparently it was astrologically better!

https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/ ... astrology/
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Kolohe wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 10:02
nicole wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 08:27
Kolohe wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 08:16
whose most important early public act in that role we now know was a lie.
Honestly curious what this is refering to. I do not understand this reference.
They had a secret wedding before the public one.
Ok looking it up, that’s just a weird story, and mainly because it seems it was only three days earlier?

There were plenty of people back in my service days that did ‘two weddings’, one immediate after engagement at the courthouse so that the spouse health care and housing allowance benefits would be accelerated, and then a later one in a more formal ceremony with the families and the rigamorole. But these things were not a mere days apart from each other.


ETA - but apparently it was astrologically better!

https://www.oprahmag.com/entertainment/ ... astrology/
Also not because the Beefeaters or some shit would have drug the groom away and stuck him in durance vile before permitting their, um, bloodline to be so threatened. Hemophilia is a professional risk but, for lack of a better word, miscegenation is a threat to the vaguely still held belief that somehow "royal" bloodline purity is a necessary condition of maintaining the monarchy. And maybe it is. *shrug* They're all German upstarts and usurpers, anyway.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Eric the .5b »

dhex wrote: 10 Mar 2021, 06:47RUC wasn't that discerning when taking people for a drive and the paramilitary groups they played footsie with were less so.
How often did they have royals involved in that? Or royals even near any part of the decision-making at any point or at any level during the Troubles, as opposed to a democratically-elected parliament ever-so-blessed by having an entirely separate head of state, as the Westminster-philes here keep reminding us?

Never. It's a horseshit inclusion. You might as well blame Beefeaters or corgis for UK policy.

It's especially hilarious to me because of all the self-consciously Irish-Americans with a hate-boner for Cromwell.

(And who exactly do you hire to prepare you when you're marrying the royal family? The people who prepped Diana?)
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dhex
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

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i'd make more lord mountbatten jokes but that ship has sailed.

anyhoo, in direct answer to your question, outside of mountbatten's assassination by the provos, the temporary cessation of home rule during the war and a number of bills from that point to the agreement requiring passage under "royal assent." (something not invoked against legislation since the 1700s iirc). Plus public utterances of the sorts you'd imagine, though generally not too inflammatory given the standards of the time. they're competing against sinn fein and ian paisley at this same time period, so quite a high bar.

So you're right in that it's not very much public involvement (there's plenty of historical disagreement about behind the scenes action, especially in the 80s), but...someone may know, for example, that the confederate flag never shot anyone and still not regard it positively, especially as if it was used by those who were doing violence.
(And who exactly do you hire to prepare you when you're marrying the royal family? The people who prepped Diana?)
anyone who could read diana's biography or show her the 1995 bbc interview on tv? any number of historians of the royal family? i mean tv industry, ucla and usc being pretty close by, etc. easy enough to nda it and/or call in a favor. obviously, i don't buy her farcical explanation for even a second, anymore than one should regard the stuff coming out from the other end as anything other than fatuous nonsense from the sclerotic rotting hangnail of empire.
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thoreau
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by thoreau »

As much as I agree that she should have known, many other people have looked at the tragic tale of a fiance's parent and said "Oh, well, that won't happen to me, I'll still marry into this family."

In the end, she has no excuse, but neither does anyone else who married into a fucked-up family. Her mistake is incredibly high-profile, but in some sense it's also incredibly mundane.
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Kolohe
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Re: Harry and Meghan on Oprah

Post by Kolohe »

Yeah, there's that arrested development meme with David Cross and Portia de whatsherface that goes something like 'hey this never works out for anyone. But it will work out for us'
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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