We know the Russians love their children too

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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

And in universe, her identity would also be known to many Russians, so Gorbachev's people could perhaps figure things out.

Whereas a Directorate S officer's identity would be unknown even to most Russians, so they could be used without tipping their hand to other factions. And they wouldn't be as in the loop as embassy people, so they could just be told that the guy is a traitor. Bring in someone from out of town, someone who doesn't know as much about Nestorenko as Elizabeth does, and tell her they can't use local assets because they have been surveilling too many summit targets and might have been made already.
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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe »

You have convinced me that they were being too cute by half.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe »

The final shot of the series should have been the lingering one on Renee.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

The cinematography in the very last scene was weird, very Hollywood.

I'm satisfied with where the characters wound up, but I do wish that the season had wrapped up more storylines.
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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe »

Reflecting on it more, I think they wrapped up everyone's storyline ok. I mean, we know this Gorby coup never happened, but a later one would. Everyone's life is going to get upended anyway in just under 4 years.

What still bugs me is that I understand Russia is big (Hitler and Napoleon found that out the hard way), and the USSR was even bigger. Still, after Paige split, they could have travelled by map until they met Arkady. I did though appreciate the end of the dream sequence, when Elizabeth sees her kids in the style of that artist (and younger).

I also don't know if anything towards the end of the finale was a call back to the premiere. I don't think there was, but could have easily missed something. (I missed mail robot until the AV club recap pointed it out)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

Kolohe wrote: 31 May 2018, 15:13What still bugs me is that I understand Russia is big (Hitler and Napoleon found that out the hard way), and the USSR was even bigger. Still, after Paige split, they could have travelled by map until they met Arkady.
Not sure I follow your point here.

I assume that after Paige split they caught a flight from Canada to somewhere in Europe, then drove to Russia. Which, frankly, seems weird. I would think that once they crossed from some place in US-friendly Europe to some place in Russia-friendly Europe they'd get an escort, probably by somebody loyal to Arkady and/or Gorbachev, and board a plane or train to Moscow. Driving on their own, through places they've never been to, past checkpoints run by a bureaucratic system that they haven't had any on-the-ground interactions with in 20+ years, and presumably starting in a country where Russian isn't the local language (since they crossed from somewhere else into Russia) seems dangerous. After all that time in the US, their demeanor could seems suspicious to a checkpoint authority, or their movements might seem suspicious to somebody who wasn't in the Need To Know circle with Arkady, or their lack of familiarity with the locale could make them vulnerable to an ambush if Claudia and/or her allies learned of their movements.

I suppose Arkady could have arranged Very Official Do Not Fuck With This Person paperwork, but that has its own risks. Somebody might wonder about such unusual happenings and place a call to check authenticity.
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

They could have satisfied both the nitpicking and the demands of closure by having a scene where Philip and Elizabeth are waiting in some European city to meet a friendly contact, wondering if they can trust whoever shows up, hoping the signals are correct, talking about whether they made the right choice. Maybe they see a newspaper cover with news about the summit, and that reassures them.

Then some character that we already know shows up and gives them the signal that it's safe. Probably Gabriel. Maybe Arkady. They are given new disguises and Russian government ID. They board a flight to Moscow.
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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe »

Just that the trip after leaving the train station near the border to the final scene on the bridge took *a lot* of screen time, without much payoff to me for that particular investment.

(And by 2010's US standards, border controls are not that exotic so they didn't have 'look at this peculiar thing in a strange culture' for the audience)

And even w the pre-train stuff being necessary, the McD's scene was also a hair too long for the point of it.

One problem I think is both the Dire Straits and U2 montages would have made decent, if imperfect endings themselves*, so we had a LOTResque too many endings thing.

* other shows have definitely done a season finale with Brothers in Arms, not sure if With or Without You has been used similarly.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

The producers are committed to the artistry of montages with music and characters displaying emotion without audible dialogue.

I wouldn't have minded a meeting with Gabriel in Europe.

I would have been amused if Elizabeth had learned of her stepson, but it would have detracted from what they were trying to do. She can meet Mischa Jr. some other time.
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

The person working the front desk at my gym is rocking a 1980's aerobics outfit. Must be some Americans cosplay.
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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe »

It occured to me this evening that they missed an opportunity for a Robert Hannsen shout out. Looking it up, he would have been working in Aderholt's office in the time frame of the last season. (And on a mole hunt, at that).
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

Kolohe wrote:It occured to me this evening that they missed an opportunity for a Robert Hannsen shout out. Looking it up, he would have been working in Aderholt's office in the time frame of the last season. (And on a mole hunt, at that).
That would have been amusing.

To merge threads, maybe we should have seen Philip get a job as a Usenet troll.
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau »

The actress who played Paige is in a new Netflix horror series, The Unsettling. The series is meh. But I can't wait for her character to learn her foster parents' big secret. "I've gotten worse revelations."
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
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