Star Trek Wankery

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Shem
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Shem »

Warren, I'm not sure someone who unironically liked Voyager has much room to be throwing shade.

If you're really determined to go for an arc, Hugh's suggestion is probably one of the best I've seen, and I might start going through it myself. Truthfully, the best bet is to start picking and choosing from TNG or DS9 from Season 3 onward. You can go back into the first two seasons later, but Trek shows start insanely slow, so you're better off jumping in once they have their formula for the series down.
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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"Today I ran some ordinary everyday errands using my personal transportation vehicle, a powerful machine capable of traveling at speeds in excess of a mile a minute [all while carrying myself plus up to three passengers and a couple hundred pounds of cargo, too]. Here's a slow-motion video showing, in lavish detail and from all angles, what it looked like when I used precision maneuvering techniques to slo-o-o-o-owly move this mighty vehicle into position at a fueling station, where I laid in a supply of the highly refined petroleum distillate we early-21st-century people use to power our transportation and hauling devices."

I'm watching the season-1 TNG episode about the aliens who think in binary code, and that's exactly what it sounds like so far. Verrrry sloooow paced opening scene showing the Enterprise pulling into a starbase for some routine maintenance, with up-close facial-reaction shots of every single bridge officer while Geordi accomplished the exciting maneuver of pulling the Enterprise into a space dock.

Also, when Picard and Riker are in the elevator discussing their plans now that they're off-duty, Picard said "I'm gonna turn on my personal relaxation light" to read a novel. Because 24th-century starships aren't equipped with ordinary primitive "lights" or "lamps" like we-all have in our primitive year-2021 homes; People of The Future have "personal relaxation lights."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

Season 1 of TNG is absolutely shitty writing and full-on late Roddenberry retro-70s goofiness all borne upon the backs of the cast's ability and charisma. With a lesser cast, it would have died after a season or two and just ended up a geek obscurity like the War of the Worlds TV show that came out in 1988.

I'm not even sure what's the worst episode of that season. I'm curious what you think, Jennifer.
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Eric the .5b wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 04:06 Season 1 of TNG is absolutely shitty writing and full-on late Roddenberry retro-70s goofiness all borne upon the backs of the cast's ability and charisma. With a lesser cast, it would have died after a season or two and just ended up a geek obscurity like the War of the Worlds TV show that came out in 1988.
Yes, it was gawdaful. Stewart, Spiner, and even Frakes did the heavy lifting to keep it afloat. Season 2 got significantly better, and the series may have even peaked on season 3.

Eric the .5b wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 04:06 I'm not even sure what's the worst episode of that season.
Hands down it's Code of Honor.
Though truth be told, I dislike the very special episode Symbiosis even more.
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Shem
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Warren wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 11:28 Hands down it's Code of Honor.
When you're right, you're right.
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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It's hard to say which episode was the worst because they were all so bad in their own unique ways. Like when dog vs. cat owners try arguing which pet is the smarter: "Dogs are smarter because they can learn all kinds of tricks!" "No, cats are smarter because they're too smart towaste time with your stupid tricks!" Like, Code of Honor was awful because of the super-offensive African-savage stereotypes ... but the writers swear they did not specify appearance or dress, and had the savages been played by blond Viking-types with generic "Old Europe" clothes and accents it might not have been too bad (by late-80s episodic TV scifi standards). Symbiosis had the potential to be an interesting story abut the dynamic that could play out between "planet of poor addicts" and "planet of rich dealers," but instead devolved into a standard preachy Reagan-era drugs 'er bad Very Special Episode. The episode where they find the cryogenically frozen 1990s people also could've been a great piece showcasing the Us-and-Them differences why even "good" people of our time might be annoying to 24th-century enlightened types .... except it also had that smarmy "OMG, can you believe people in those days were actually afraid of dying, and wanted to avoid it when possible?" discussion 'twixt Crusher and Picard, AND two out of the three '90s people were obnoxious assholes even by 1990s standards, so the attempted "Here's what's wrong with people of that era" moral was basically the Starfleet version of "libertarians ALL think Somalia is the ideal state" types. And Angel One could've been a perfectly respectable 80s-scifi story except ....
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Shem
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Jennifer wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 13:14 Like, Code of Honor was awful because of the super-offensive African-savage stereotypes ... but the writers swear they did not specify appearance or dress, and had the savages been played by blond Viking-types with generic "Old Europe" clothes and accents it might not have been too bad (by late-80s episodic TV scifi standards)
The writers actually didn't; the antagonists were supposed to be reptilian samurai aliens who kidnapped Yar to count coup. The original director changed them to Africans and cast exclusively Black people, including the guy whose claim to fame was "self-hating cop from Boyz n the Hood." The director was actually fired by Roddenberry for being hideously racist to the cast. That's why it was the worst episode; it wasn't just poorly done, it was actively turned into a mockery of what Star Trek is supposed to be about.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

"Code of Honor" was definitely the one the cast hated making the most. But there's also "Justice" that season and "The Last Outpost".

(It's actually some effort to remember that there were a few half-decent episodes scattered among the rest. "The Battle" was an old favorite of mine as a kid.)
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Shem wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 11:55
Warren wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 11:28 Hands down it's Code of Honor.
When you're right, you're right.
The Naked Now is even dumber, but not as racist. The only thing that saves Naked Now from being at best a tie with Code of Honor is the "fully functional" scene.
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Eric the .5b wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 15:09 "Code of Honor" was definitely the one the cast hated making the most. But there's also "Justice" that season and "The Last Outpost".

(It's actually some effort to remember that there were a few half-decent episodes scattered among the rest. "The Battle" was an old favorite of mine as a kid.)
All Wesley eps are awful. I'm tempted to say season 1 Wesley is the worst, but no. He doesn't get better.

TNG Ferengi are cartoons.
lunchstealer wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 15:36
Shem wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 11:55
Warren wrote: 18 Apr 2021, 11:28 Hands down it's Code of Honor.
When you're right, you're right.
The Naked Now is even dumber, but not as racist. The only thing that saves Naked Now from being at best a tie with Code of Honor is the "fully functional" scene.
Naked Now makes my Best of Season 1 list. In no small part for the fully functional scene. I'm not saying it's a good ep, only in comparison to the rest of the dreck.
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Jennifer reached out and turned a switch, and the warm illumination from the personal relaxation light on her desk blended with the stark bluer light emanating from the electronic screens she used to engage in near-realtime text-based conversation with people on all five of her planet's inhabited continents. "I am dealing with a complex personal problem," she said. "Let's find a simplistic black-and-white solution that ignores all realistic nuances and culminates in a preachy morality lecture."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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Shem
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Why does Starfleet have a JAG corps if they never actually give anyone accused of a crime a lawyer? "Accused of massacring hundreds of civilians? Grab the most eloquent officer on the station and hope the other lawyer sucks." "Accused of sedition? Better hope Picard can button-mash the opposing counsel's freudian berserk button until she goes nuts and everyone forgets you're technically guilty of several serious crimes."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Shem wrote: 20 Apr 2021, 16:30 Why does Starfleet have a JAG corps if they never actually give anyone accused of a crime a lawyer? "Accused of massacring hundreds of civilians? Grab the most eloquent officer on the station and hope the other lawyer sucks." "Accused of sedition? Better hope Picard can button-mash the opposing counsel's freudian berserk button until she goes nuts and everyone forgets you're technically guilty of several serious crimes."
Kirk got that one crusty old lawyer Cogley when he was court martialed. Of course, that was the episode the old friend he met with to hire as his attorney eventually turned out to be his prosecutor, and the crusty old lawyer is next to useless in anything like a real defense. He doesn't cross-examine any of the prosecution's witnesses, and he has no comeback when the prosecutor finally shows the computer evidence, including a video recording, that everyone had been warning from the start would damn Kirk. (Discovery? What's that?) He just asks Kirk if he wants to change his plea.

It's Spock who finds the crucial evidence, not anyone involved in the prosecution or defense, and Cogley basically just dramatically announces what Spock and McCoy figure out.

I'm drawing a blank for any lawyer characters in TNG and later, aside from that one Klingon attorney who presents the most ludicrous argument, "We want Worf arrested for war crimes, in the middle of this war between us and the Federation. And we know he blew up those civilians, because he's a Klingon, and we Klingons don't give a shit about civilians getting blown up!"

(No, nobody goes, "So, what's your complaint, again?" during the course of the whole prosecution. And the whole thing turns out to be an elaborate hoax for the purpose of, um, embarrassing the Federation in the middle of a war with them that the Klingons are probably losing. So yeah. And especially now, it's an uncomfortable case of the "all war crimes accusations are vile enemy propaganda" business...)

Future space law is scary. Never talk to the space cops.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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The biggest problem with Code of Honor is that the aliens are all black. If they had been all white, or mixed, or just randos with forehead prostheses, it would have been a forgetably anodyne story about the barbarity of honor codes. The way the casting (and costuming) happened, it's really hard to avoid the reading about the barbarity of black folks. I wouldn't be surprised if Roddenberry's 60's brain thought it very progressive to cast a whole world of black people. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to talk him out of it.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Hugh Akston wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 00:29 The biggest problem with Code of Honor is that the aliens are all black. If they had been all white, or mixed, or just randos with forehead prostheses, it would have been a forgetably anodyne story about the barbarity of honor codes. The way the casting (and costuming) happened, it's really hard to avoid the reading about the barbarity of black folks. I wouldn't be surprised if Roddenberry's 60's brain thought it very progressive to cast a whole world of black people. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to talk him out of it.
Well, there's also the matter of the cat fight.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Warren wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 00:56
Hugh Akston wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 00:29 The biggest problem with Code of Honor is that the aliens are all black. If they had been all white, or mixed, or just randos with forehead prostheses, it would have been a forgetably anodyne story about the barbarity of honor codes. The way the casting (and costuming) happened, it's really hard to avoid the reading about the barbarity of black folks. I wouldn't be surprised if Roddenberry's 60's brain thought it very progressive to cast a whole world of black people. I also wouldn't be surprised if someone tried to talk him out of it.
Well, there's also the matter of the cat fight.
I guess, but that sort of made sense in the context of the culture. The real problem with the fight was that it was between Tasha and a character whose only characteristic was "wants to fight Tasha."
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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In addition to the TNG re-watch binge, and my recent ventures into watching Voyager and DS9 (both series I mostly haven't seen yet), and over time you can definitely make a case for the Federation being not nearly as perfect as it proclaims itself, or even as competent as Picard's Enterprise. Don't know how many Starfleet admirals we've seen, but most of them have been bad.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Image
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

dbcooper wrote: 23 Apr 2021, 21:21
Given LaForges's love life, I'm not sure who's speaking...
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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ICYMI

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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How many starfighters even have primary shield generators, much less auxiliaries? I mean the TIE defender was a big deal because it had shields.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b »

Hugh Akston wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 19:12 How many starfighters even have primary shield generators, much less auxiliaries? I mean the TIE defender was a big deal because it had shields.
The X-Wing had shields. I think the Gunstar did, too. Standard for protagonist fighter craft.

Mind, I don't think fighter craft ever showed up in Star Trek until that big battle with the Dominion in DS9. Writers and artists had been sneaking them into supplementary books and whatnot since at least the late 70s, but it was always a weird match for the setting, where targeting anything is easy for top-end militaries and the only concept of evasive maneuvering is "go down and to the left".
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

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I just realized this is Star Wars, not Star Trek. I heard shields and thrusters, not fighter. Lol
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