The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 14070
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Highway »

I've been amazed at ICE's ability to make normal correctional workers not the group of the worst bastards on earth. Not that it makes CWs good, but it gives them someone to look at and go "daaaaaaamn, that's going too far, bro."
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."
User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 26651
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Jennifer »

Highway wrote: 03 Dec 2020, 18:43 I've been amazed at ICE's ability to make normal correctional workers not the group of the worst bastards on earth. Not that it makes CWs good, but it gives them someone to look at and go "daaaaaaamn, that's going too far, bro."
Or a new career position to aspire to.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20155
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Hugh Akston »

"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12568
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by JD »

Thank you for posting that, Hugh, that was very interesting. I would really like to see a deeper exploration of the topic - what does Finland's overall crime rate look like, what are their sentencing policies like, are there limitations on who gets this sort of treatment, how did they move away from their earlier policies models and to the new ones, etc. I did quickly find one article which is interesting in what it implies:
The 70 inmates in this facility go to work every day in the greenhouse. Today, they’re potting seedlings in preparation for a big spring sale. And yes, there’s a pen of bunnies to hang out with and pet. There are also sheep.

But there aren't any gates, locks or uniforms — this is an open prison. Everyone at the Kerava open prison applied to be here. They earn about $8 an hour, have cell phones, do their grocery shopping in town and get three days of vacation every couple of months. They pay rent to the prison; they choose to study for a university degree in town instead of working, they get a subsidy for it; they sometimes take supervised camping and fishing trips.

Inmates know it wouldn’t be hard to escape. "You can go if you want,” Kallio says. “But if you escape, you go back to jail. Better to be here.”
...
Open prisons have been around in Finland since about the 1930s. Back then, they were more like labor colonies. These days, they’re the last step of a prison sentence before inmates make the transition back to regular life.
...
A fellow inmate, Juha, who doesn't want to give his last name, is expecting his first child. He's serving a life sentence, but most such sentences in Finland are commuted to 10 or 15 years. "“It’s a pretty big deal,” Juha says, “but I don’t know when I’m going to get out. Basically, his mother is going to raise him.”

Juha’s not sure when he’ll be able to go home to his new family, but he knows that he eventually will. And for someone who started out in maximum-security prison with a life sentence, that says a lot.
(https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-15/ ... -have-keys)

That article is almost more interesting in what it doesn't explicitly say: there are also jails and maximum security prisons, which are worse and to which you can go if you break the open prison rules; not everybody gets to go to the open prisons, and not for their entire sentences. That actually makes it sound less different from the US than you might think, because we have some prisons like that; in Mr. Smith Goes To Prison, the author describes serving some of his sentence at a prison (in the US) where you could have basically just walked away if you wanted to, but most inmates didn't, because then you'd be a fugitive being hunted down and subject to being sent back to a higher-security prison.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17740
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Aresen »

JD wrote: 18 Dec 2020, 17:11
The 70 inmates in this facility go to work every day in the greenhouse. Today, they’re potting seedlings in preparation for a big spring sale. And yes, there’s a pen of bunnies to hang out with and pet. There are also sheep.
I thought visitation rights took care of that. :P
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 15521
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Eric the .5b »

If I'm not mistaken, Norway is a better example of trying to humanize their prison system, which happened to look a lot like the US one as late as the turn of the century. I believe it's also a piecemeal sort of reform, but they actually put full-on violent killers in their more humane prisons.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 13716
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Ellie »

A thread about the absolute fuckery of mental health non-treatment faced by people in jail (pretrial! presumed innocent! Not that this is acceptable for convicted criminals either.) I do not recommend reading unless you want to become completely enraged.

Like baptists at the glory hole

"oh dear" they mutter, unzipping their pants

-dhex
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12568
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by JD »

Ellie wrote: 23 Dec 2020, 14:53 A thread about the absolute fuckery of mental health non-treatment faced by people in jail (pretrial! presumed innocent! Not that this is acceptable for convicted criminals either.) I do not recommend reading unless you want to become completely enraged.

Jesus, that's pretty horrifying. Not just the meds (which seems guaranteed to fuck up people on mental health meds, and what about people on, say, heart medication, without which they could just up and die?) but they don't provide soap?! It sounds like maybe not all jails are the same, but still, it''s unbelievable that anywhere would do that.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 31159
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by thoreau »

When you lock a man up and keep him from earning money to provide for himself, you should be responsible for his meds.
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
--JD
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20155
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Hugh Akston »

thoreau wrote: 23 Dec 2020, 15:55 When you lock a man up and keep him from earning money to provide for himself, you should be responsible for his meds.
They're not men, thoreau, they're law-breaking scumbags.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Warren »

If I was abruptly taken off my meds, I'd kill myself in about two days.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20936
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Warren wrote: 23 Dec 2020, 17:43 If I was abruptly taken off my meds, I'd kill myself in about two days.
Now you tell us!
User avatar
Highway
Posts: 14070
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Highway »

And of course, the CO's probably use the non-responsiveness or instability of the people who have just gone off their meds as excuses to be even bigger assholes.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20155
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Hugh Akston »



@2:50: fuck you, America.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 13716
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Ellie »



I'm not gonna follow the link because just the tweet makes me want to stab somebody but maybe y'all want to read it I dunno

fucking HELL why is everyone the WORST
Like baptists at the glory hole

"oh dear" they mutter, unzipping their pants

-dhex
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Warren »

Ellie wrote: 13 Feb 2021, 15:22

I'm not gonna follow the link because just the tweet makes me want to stab somebody but maybe y'all want to read it I dunno

fucking HELL why is everyone the WORST
Because Trump. Trump made everybody the worst. It's all his fault. Everything bad is Trumps fault. Trump is bad, and all bad things are because Trump for ever and ever amen.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9231
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Warren wrote: 13 Feb 2021, 19:51
Ellie wrote: 13 Feb 2021, 15:22

I'm not gonna follow the link because just the tweet makes me want to stab somebody but maybe y'all want to read it I dunno

fucking HELL why is everyone the WORST
Because Trump. Trump made everybody the worst. It's all his fault. Everything bad is Trumps fault. Trump is bad, and all bad things are because Trump for ever and ever amen.
Yes. Because that's all anyone has been saying without evidence for years now.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 14838
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Kolohe »

Ellie wrote: 13 Feb 2021, 15:22

I'm not gonna follow the link because just the tweet makes me want to stab somebody but maybe y'all want to read it I dunno

fucking HELL why is everyone the WORST
The second link on the thread goes to a story where the proposed initiative seems to be praised by prison reformers and opposed by the guard’s union.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 13716
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Ellie »

Kolohe wrote: 14 Feb 2021, 17:12The second link on the thread goes to a story where the proposed initiative seems to be praised by prison reformers and opposed by the guard’s union.
Okay, that makes me feel a little better. I had assumed it was a shitty "no mail for you!" initiative because "fuck prisoners, that's why"
Like baptists at the glory hole

"oh dear" they mutter, unzipping their pants

-dhex
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20155
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Hugh Akston »

Illinois is the first state to eliminate cash bail
Under Illinois’s new law, judges will no longer be able to set any kind of bail for a defendant charged with a crime, making it unique among states that have reformed the bail system, according to legislators.
Mr. Buckner said the legislation was the culmination of exhaustive research into the laws and practices in other states and countries. Under the new system, judges will be presented with evidence to determine what kind of risk releasing a defendant poses to the community and whether the defendant can be counted on to return to court. A judge will then determine if the person should be held in detention until trial.
I can't see any potential for bias in that system. Especially in Illinois.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 30826
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote: 24 Feb 2021, 09:56 Illinois is the first state to eliminate cash bail
Under Illinois’s new law, judges will no longer be able to set any kind of bail for a defendant charged with a crime, making it unique among states that have reformed the bail system, according to legislators.
Mr. Buckner said the legislation was the culmination of exhaustive research into the laws and practices in other states and countries. Under the new system, judges will be presented with evidence to determine what kind of risk releasing a defendant poses to the community and whether the defendant can be counted on to return to court. A judge will then determine if the person should be held in detention until trial.
I can't see any potential for bias in that system. Especially in Illinois.
Nope. No bias at all. Especially against the poor, for whose benefit this legislation was ostensibly passed.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16520
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by dhex »

I thought NJ eliminated cash bail two years ago?
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20155
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by Hugh Akston »

dhex wrote: 25 Feb 2021, 08:15 I thought NJ eliminated cash bail two years ago?
Jersey and Alaska eliminated most cash bail, but still allow it to be set in some cases. IL appears to be the first to take the option off the table entirely.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
nicole
Posts: 11062
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

Post by nicole »

Wow that's so weird and shocking that the NYT article pretends it's never heard of Chicago or the results of bail reform here.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
Post Reply