The Sheriff Joe Arpaio Memorial Prison Reform Thread

[Hugh Akston]

I know he's not dead yet, but a guy can dream.

Let's kick things off with a story of cruel and unusual punishment from the PRC: Labor camp prisoners forced to play WoW.

[JasonL]

I know he's not dead yet, but a guy can dream.

Let's kick things off with a story of cruel and unusual punishment from the PRC: Labor camp prisoners forced to play WoW.

I smell a Hollywood script. Paris Hilton is pushing a new handbag in Beijing, when suddenly everything goes wrong. She's arrested for attempting to move distribution weight of opium in the anal cavity of a chihuahua and shipped off without a trial to a remote prison camp. She is forced to play WoW but she like sucks at computers and stuff. The guards beat her like a pinata. When she is about to break, she meets an innocuous looking fellow with glasses who turns out to be a genius who turned down the nobel prize in mathematics for noble political reasons. He's been kidnapped by the chinese government and it turns out that 22% of chinese gdp is actually due to his WoW farming strategies. He's not good with girls. Maybe they can help each other.

Back in the states, the government is preparing to send in the one man who can do something about chinese prison camp online gaming and its effects on global trade - Mr. T.

[Kolohe]

Make the Noble Prize a Fields medal, and make the math genius Jamie Chung and I think you got yourself a pitch.

[Warren]

Make the Noble Prize a Fields medal, and make the math genius Jamie Chung and I think you got yourself a pitch.

Change Jamie Chung to Minnie Driver and Beijing to Boston, and you got Good Will Hunting. Cept not really.

Thought I had something there.

[pistoffnick]

Substitute in former chicken farmer Carrol Shelby, place it in Nevada, hire a fancy pants copyright lawyer and you have Shelby motor cars.

While I agree with teaching inmate useable skills for when they get out, I suspect the exploitation aspect of it needs to be worked out better. If I ever decide that I need a totally useless but fun sports car, you can be sure I won't buy a Shelby Cobra.

[Highway]

Well, that fits in with Carrol Shelby's crusade to make sure nobody ever makes a car that looks anything like the original Cobra (a car that was pretty shamelessly ripped off from someone else's car itself) without paying him tribute. He might be good at shoehorning a giant engine into a car, but he's not a very good person on the macro scale.

[JasonL]

You guys better start explaining how you're going to make sure Mr. T is in your revisions to my work of genius.

[Aresen]

I know he's not dead yet, but a guy can dream.

Dammit, Hugh.

I read the heading on the thread and was thinking "Hallelujah", then you crush my hopes.

DON'T DO THAT!

[Lost_In_Translation]

Atleast the guards didn't make them virtual slaves for his farmville enterprise...

[Hugh Akston]

Whoops, LA County jails wrongly incarcerated 1,480 people in the last five years, thanks to mistaken identity.

In one case, a mechanic held for nine days in 1989 on a warrant meant for someone else was detained again 20 years later on the same warrant. He was jailed for more than a month the second time before the error was discovered.

In another instance, a Nissan customer service supervisor was hauled by authorities from Tennessee to L.A. County on a local sex-crimes warrant meant for someone with a similar name.

In a third case, a former construction worker mistaken for a wanted drug offender said he was assaulted by inmates and ignored by jailers.

[Hugh Akston]

Crash the system: Go to trial

The answer is yes. The system of mass incarceration depends almost entirely on the cooperation of those it seeks to control. If everyone charged with crimes suddenly exercised his constitutional rights, there would not be enough judges, lawyers or prison cells to deal with the ensuing tsunami of litigation. Not everyone would have to join for the revolt to have an impact; as the legal scholar Angela J. Davis noted, “if the number of people exercising their trial rights suddenly doubled or tripled in some jurisdictions, it would create chaos.”

[Pham Nuwen]

Dammit hugh! You got my hopes up to dizzying heights and then dashed them properly. Well done, sir.

[thoreau]

The article on crashing the system includes a quote from somebody at Cato. Since we are currently discussing the role and future of Cato in another thread, I think it's worth pointing out that Cato plays a valuable role: It demonstrates that even a political philosophy associated (rightly or wrongly) with the right can come down on the side of poor people caught up in the criminal "justice" system. In that regard, Cato is sort of the equal and opposite of the "religious left" and the occasional Christian conservative supporter of prison reform: They show that these issues are more complicated than they are often portrayed in the sports bar of politics.

Of course, libertarians are marginal freaks in our system, much like religious lefties (that is to say, lefties who are vocal in integrating their religious stances with their politics, not to be confused with folks who happen to be both lefty and religious) and conservative Christians for prison reform. Still, I'm glad to have all of these marginal groups there, to show that it's more complicated than we often make it out to be.

[fyodor]

The article on crashing the system includes a quote from somebody at Cato. Since we are currently discussing the role and future of Cato in another thread, I think it's worth pointing out that Cato plays a valuable role: It demonstrates that even a political philosophy associated (rightly or wrongly) with the right can come down on the side of poor people caught up in the criminal "justice" system. In that regard, Cato is sort of the equal and opposite of the "religious left" and the occasional Christian conservative supporter of prison reform: They show that these issues are more complicated than they are often portrayed in the sports bar of politics.

Of course, libertarians are marginal freaks in our system, much like religious lefties (that is to say, lefties who are vocal in integrating their religious stances with their politics, not to be confused with folks who happen to be both lefty and religious) and conservative Christians for prison reform. Still, I'm glad to have all of these marginal groups there, to show that it's more complicated than we often make it out to be.

That's too complicated for me.

[Mo]

So basically a bunch of potential prisoners have these choices:

All plea: Moderate sentence
All go to trial: Lenient sentence as the system will crash
Some plea, some go to trial: Long sentences for those that go to trial. shorter sentence for those that plea

This dilemma needs a name.

[thoreau]

So basically a bunch of potential prisoners have these choices:

All plea: Moderate sentence
All go to trial: Lenient sentence as the system will crash
Some plea, some go to trial: Long sentences for those that go to trial. shorter sentence for those that plea

This dilemma needs a name.

You're talking about a particular case here, Mo. We need a more general theory to encompass these sorts of strategic dilemmas. Maybe some wonderful mind could even prove a theorem about the existence (or lack thereof) of equilibrium outcomes.

[lunchstealer]

So basically a bunch of potential prisoners have these choices:

All plea: Moderate sentence
All go to trial: Lenient sentence as the system will crash
Some plea, some go to trial: Long sentences for those that go to trial. shorter sentence for those that plea

This dilemma needs a name.

You're talking about a particular case here, Mo. We need a more general theory to encompass these sorts of strategic dilemmas. Maybe some wonderful mind could even prove a theorem about the existence (or lack thereof) of equilibrium outcomes.

Wanna say this is a form of collective-action problem. Been dealt with under things like strikes and whatnot for a long time.

[Mo]

So basically a bunch of potential prisoners have these choices:

All plea: Moderate sentence
All go to trial: Lenient sentence as the system will crash
Some plea, some go to trial: Long sentences for those that go to trial. shorter sentence for those that plea

This dilemma needs a name.

You're talking about a particular case here, Mo. We need a more general theory to encompass these sorts of strategic dilemmas. Maybe some wonderful mind could even prove a theorem about the existence (or lack thereof) of equilibrium outcomes.

Man, that mind would be beautiful.

[Andrew]

So basically a bunch of potential prisoners have these choices:

All plea: Moderate sentence
All go to trial: Lenient sentence as the system will crash
Some plea, some go to trial: Long sentences for those that go to trial. shorter sentence for those that plea

This dilemma needs a name.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice that.

Also, I find the idea of "crashing the system=great justice!" to be frustratingly naive. One major fix (eliminating the right to a speedy trial) would allow the system to roll merrily along, and that wouldn't be as hard as the article makes out since the constitutional right to a speedy trial is subject to a four-factor balancing test (and any judge worth anything can make a balancing test come out however they want). The firm dates most people are familiar with are statutory and easily amended. Considering the nearly daily restrictions on rights that occur without a fuss, I don't imagine the average citizen would care that the "bad guys" are having to sit in jail longer before getting a trial. If anything, I could see people being for it since it would require more jails and more guards, both of which would be more jobs.

[Hugh Akston]

This one's actually about Sheriff Joe. Specifically how the downfall of Andrew Thomas is being used to put pressure on the Feds to pull the trigger on the Arapio investigation. It also features a supporting performance by Janet Napolitano who, by the way, I will gladly volunteer for NASA's next one-way manned space mission.

Two things:

One: is the DOJ finally going to indict Sheriff Joe and bring him down for his numerous abuses of power and violations of the Constitution? And since the answer is "no", why not?

Two: This little coda to the story:

But even a federal criminal indictment may not work against Arpaio in the upcoming general election, where he is expected to face an independent and Democratic candidates. Despite the steady drumbeat of news reports of serious problems within Arpaio’s sheriff’s office, there hasn’t been a huge public outcry demanding he step down.

“The groundswell of people coming out protesting, we haven’t seen it,” says Randy Parraz, a community activist who led the Russell Pearce recall effort. “It’s a mystery. Anywhere else with this kind of stuff, he wouldn’t survive.”

This sort of myopic bafflement about Democracy not functioning as an effective bulwark against tyranny always surprises me. Sheriff Joe keeps the majority of voters in Maricopa on his side by creating a boogeyman out of a largely disenfranchised minority(?), and then doing something about it. Then he makes himself a martyr when the egghead elites in Washington try to stop him. This is a reliable means to seize and secure power, and yet people who believe in Democracy always seem surprised when it happens.

[Dangerman]

I know he's not dead yet, but a guy can dream.

Let's kick things off with a story of cruel and unusual punishment from the PRC: Labor camp prisoners forced to play WoW.

I smell a Hollywood script. Paris Hilton is pushing a new handbag in Beijing, when suddenly everything goes wrong. She's arrested for attempting to move distribution weight of opium in the anal cavity of a chihuahua and shipped off without a trial to a remote prison camp. She is forced to play WoW but she like sucks at computers and stuff. The guards beat her like a pinata. When she is about to break, she meets an innocuous looking fellow with glasses who turns out to be a genius who turned down the nobel prize in mathematics for noble political reasons. He's been kidnapped by the chinese government and it turns out that 22% of chinese gdp is actually due to his WoW farming strategies. He's not good with girls. Maybe they can help each other.

Back in the states, the government is preparing to send in the one man who can do something about chinese prison camp online gaming and its effects on global trade - Mr. T.

Paris isn't in it (sad panda, I guess), but I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that REAMDE hits 4/5 of these points.

[Pham Nuwen]

This sort of myopic bafflement about Democracy not functioning as an effective bulwark against tyranny always surprises me. Sheriff Joe keeps the majority of voters in Maricopa on his side by creating a boogeyman out of a largely disenfranchised minority(?), and then doing something about it. Then he makes himself a martyr when the egghead elites in Washington try to stop him. This is a reliable means to seize and secure power, and yet people who believe in Democracy always seem surprised when it happens.

Hitler!

[Mo]

Two: This little coda to the story:

But even a federal criminal indictment may not work against Arpaio in the upcoming general election, where he is expected to face an independent and Democratic candidates. Despite the steady drumbeat of news reports of serious problems within Arpaio’s sheriff’s office, there hasn’t been a huge public outcry demanding he step down.

“The groundswell of people coming out protesting, we haven’t seen it,” says Randy Parraz, a community activist who led the Russell Pearce recall effort. “It’s a mystery. Anywhere else with this kind of stuff, he wouldn’t survive.”

This sort of myopic bafflement about Democracy not functioning as an effective bulwark against tyranny always surprises me. Sheriff Joe keeps the majority of voters in Maricopa on his side by creating a boogeyman out of a largely disenfranchised minority(?), and then doing something about it. Then he makes himself a martyr when the egghead elites in Washington try to stop him. This is a reliable means to seize and secure power, and yet people who believe in Democracy always seem surprised when it happens.

It's like he lives in a world where James Traficant never existed.

[Pham Nuwen]

Two: This little coda to the story:

But even a federal criminal indictment may not work against Arpaio in the upcoming general election, where he is expected to face an independent and Democratic candidates. Despite the steady drumbeat of news reports of serious problems within Arpaio’s sheriff’s office, there hasn’t been a huge public outcry demanding he step down.

“The groundswell of people coming out protesting, we haven’t seen it,” says Randy Parraz, a community activist who led the Russell Pearce recall effort. “It’s a mystery. Anywhere else with this kind of stuff, he wouldn’t survive.”

This sort of myopic bafflement about Democracy not functioning as an effective bulwark against tyranny always surprises me. Sheriff Joe keeps the majority of voters in Maricopa on his side by creating a boogeyman out of a largely disenfranchised minority(?), and then doing something about it. Then he makes himself a martyr when the egghead elites in Washington try to stop him. This is a reliable means to seize and secure power, and yet people who believe in Democracy always seem surprised when it happens.

It's like he lives in a world where James Traficant never existed.

Who?

[dbcooper]

You will know the hair.