When journalism goes bad

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21248
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

thoreau wrote: 16 Mar 2021, 15:56
Number 6 wrote: 16 Mar 2021, 15:37That was, unsurprisingly, especially true of TV 'journalists.'
You mean models in slightly more practical clothes?
Now, now! Many of them have speech and communication degrees with minors in media studies.
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16697
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dhex »

"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31110
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Warren »

THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16697
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dhex »

wasn't paywalled on my phone but is on my desktop...i'll see if i can find an archive copy somewhere
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19625
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by lunchstealer »

dhex wrote: 22 Mar 2021, 13:00 wasn't paywalled on my phone but is on my desktop...i'll see if i can find an archive copy somewhere
Wasn't paywalled on my desktop using firefox with privacy badger until I closed it and re-opened it in another tab so I could quote a few bits to reply to this post. Reopened in Chrome and got through at least on the first try.

The lede is -
The scandal broke in The Wall Street Journal, two and a half years ago. Three self-described "left-leaning liberals" had fooled feminist and gender studies journals to accept a number of “absurd and horrific’” hoax papers for publication. One paper was billed as a rewrite of a chapter from Hitler’s "Mein Kampf," but using feminist theory.

Peter Boghossian, James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose’s endeavors were praised in some quarters as an essential satire of fashionable jargon and theories, and a brave expose of academic journals’ openness to publishing "intellectually vacuous as well as morally troubling bullshit," as Yascha Mounk put it.

and the general thrust of the article is to examine the paper that they submitted claiming to have gotten feminists to publish 'Mein Kampf' with nazism replaced with feminism and that they're full of shit because they'd altered it so much that it was basically unrelated to Mein Kampf at all.

Basically they took the least objectionable chapter of the book, one not on what nazis believe but on how they could effectively communicate their nazi message to start with, because in the hoaxsters own description the other chapters were too extreme to be useful, so they started off by cherry picking the absolute easiest part rather than really challenging the feminists to detect the really evil Hitlery stuff.

Then the article compares actual passages and removes the bits that were changed by the author, what you're left with isn't even a Mad Libs thing,
It is surprising, to say the least, that none of the journalists reporting on the controversy actually bothered to compare the two texts. If they'd done so, they would have found that the Affilia article didn't contain anything that could be recognized as "Mein Kampf" even by a Hitler expert, let alone a lay person.

The best way to illustrate this is to highlight a section of what remained of Hitler's text, spread out as it was over several paragraphs on several pages:
[…] to appeal to […] contented and satisfied, […] to embrace […].

[…] half-measures, by […] a so-called objective standpoint, […] the goal […]. That is to say, […] in the sense […] many limitations, […]. […] countered only by an antidote, […] only the […]. […] people […] neither […] nor […]. […] abstract knowledge […] directs their […]. […] is where their […] lies. […] receptive […] in one of these two directions […] never to a […] between the two.

[…] emotional […] stability. […] than respect, […] is more […] than aversion, […] weakness) […], […] will […] power.

The future of a movement is […].
The lacunae between these preserved pieces of text were filled with material that was either re-written, or entirely new (including references to bona fide scholarship). This created the convincing illusion of an original philosophy paper. Neither the words nor the intent were comparable to "Mein Kampf"; indeed, the intent was the very opposite.

If the idea was to showcase the 'absurdity' of feminist theory, and the ideology-fueled laxity of editors, why didn’t they choose to work from a much more ideological or racist part of "Mein Kampf," say chapter 11: Volk und Rasse ("People and Race") instead? Well, Lindsay told Rubin, revealingly, it was "too extreme" to be useful.

If the point of the experiment was to prove that radical theory was so unhinged it could pass as Nazism, they failed. If the point was to hoodwink a feminist journal to run "Mein Kampf" dressed up as feminist theory, but denatured the text to be unrecognizable from the original, then they didn’t prove their contention at all.


and they finish that last paragraph with what I think sums up the article best.
What they did prove was that there are workaday sentences with nouns and verbs and adjectives in "Mein Kampf" that can be repurposed.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12759
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JD »

thoreau wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 14:37 Here's some local reporting on the suspect, FWIW.

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/03/23/b ... wi-alissa/

I don't know if he's mentally ill, but one way or another his issues seem more personal than ideological.
From that article:
Alissa purchased a Ruger AR-556 pistol seven days before the attack, according to a police affidavit released Tuesday.

He bought the gun on March 16. The weapon, which looks similar to a rifle, has a 30-round capacity and is sold with a long brace billed as a way to improve accuracy, according to Ruger’s website.
They acknowledge getting the info from Ruger's website, but they missed that it says "rifle" right in the title of the page? And it's a "pistol" with a "long brace" that "looks similar to a rifle"...I feel that we are dealing with someone who knows how to string words together into a roughly grammatical form, but not what any of the words actually mean.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 2005
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dead_elvis »

JFC Fox News, her *niece*? Really? Having to reach a little far dontcha think?
Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 2.21.50 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 2.21.50 PM.png (29.29 KiB) Viewed 741 times
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19625
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by lunchstealer »

dead_elvis wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 17:57 JFC Fox News, her *niece*? Really? Having to reach a little far dontcha think?

Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 2.21.50 PM.png
Yah for fucks sake there are more than enough people who pulled that shit that you don't have to go after a person because of who their parent's sister is.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 31545
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by thoreau »

I mean, I'm an asshole in all sorts of ways, but nobody's faulted my aunts and uncles over it.
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
--JD
User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 14930
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Kolohe »

dead_elvis wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 17:57 JFC Fox News, her *niece*? Really? Having to reach a little far dontcha think?

Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 2.21.50 PM.png
Meena Harris is sorta a ‘somebody’ in her own right and has a fairly sizeable Twitter presence (still less than a million followers though)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25739
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL »

lunchstealer wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 19:39
dead_elvis wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 17:57 JFC Fox News, her *niece*? Really? Having to reach a little far dontcha think?

Screen Shot 2021-03-23 at 2.21.50 PM.png
Yah for fucks sake there are more than enough people who pulled that shit that you don't have to go after a person because of who their parent's sister is.
A60A1E84-8232-4B9B-9F73-4CC1F25BB985.png
A60A1E84-8232-4B9B-9F73-4CC1F25BB985.png (1.72 MiB) Viewed 702 times
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31110
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Warren »

Facts and evidence are tools of white supremacy.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9406
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Warren wrote: 24 Mar 2021, 11:41 Facts and evidence are tools of white supremacy.
Now you're cooking with gas, my friend. Preach!
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Jasper
Posts: 3587
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 07:56
Location: Newyorkachusetts

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Jasper »

JD wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 15:05
They acknowledge getting the info from Ruger's website, but they missed that it says "rifle" right in the title of the page? And it's a "pistol" with a "long brace" that "looks similar to a rifle"...I feel that we are dealing with someone who knows how to string words together into a roughly grammatical form, but not what any of the words actually mean.
IDRTFA, and not to get too deep into the weeds here, but these are actually a thing. The combination of how the ATF defines firearms, individual states' laws, and manufacturers' marketing info are to blame for even someone like me, who enjoys firearms and shooting, to be completely befuddled as to what certain combinations of features get defined as.

I suspect that what the dude had was a rifle-caliber (5.56 NATO or .223 Remington) pistol with a forearm brace. Basically, an AR-15 platform upper & lower receiver, a barrel too short to be classified as a 'rifle' or 'short barrel rifle', and a contraption designed to strap to your forearm as you hold the pistol-grip, in place of where the stock attaches. So for all intensive porpoises, something that looks like a short "assault rifle" supposedly designed to fire while holding with one hand.

CT calls a variant of these "Others", based on the wording of our local laws. You can't buy a new AR-platform rifle here, but you can buy or build an AR-platform 'Other'.

I'd actually be willing to give the reporter props for trying to describe it correctly.
User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25739
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JasonL »

Jasper wrote: 25 Mar 2021, 13:39
JD wrote: 23 Mar 2021, 15:05
They acknowledge getting the info from Ruger's website, but they missed that it says "rifle" right in the title of the page? And it's a "pistol" with a "long brace" that "looks similar to a rifle"...I feel that we are dealing with someone who knows how to string words together into a roughly grammatical form, but not what any of the words actually mean.
IDRTFA, and not to get too deep into the weeds here, but these are actually a thing. The combination of how the ATF defines firearms, individual states' laws, and manufacturers' marketing info are to blame for even someone like me, who enjoys firearms and shooting, to be completely befuddled as to what certain combinations of features get defined as.

I suspect that what the dude had was a rifle-caliber (5.56 NATO or .223 Remington) pistol with a forearm brace. Basically, an AR-15 platform upper & lower receiver, a barrel too short to be classified as a 'rifle' or 'short barrel rifle', and a contraption designed to strap to your forearm as you hold the pistol-grip, in place of where the stock attaches. So for all intensive porpoises, something that looks like a short "assault rifle" supposedly designed to fire while holding with one hand.

CT calls a variant of these "Others", based on the wording of our local laws. You can't buy a new AR-platform rifle here, but you can buy or build an AR-platform 'Other'.

I'd actually be willing to give the reporter props for trying to describe it correctly.
Agree with this, it's the SBR workaround using a thing that is definitely not a stock but is rather an arm brace. I have see 3 position arm braces that don't actually clamp on anyone's arm, so ... yeah. It's a game to still call the thing a pistol using the feds own language against them.
User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 2005
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dead_elvis »

From an article about USians struggling with a property in Baja that was owned by someone who died in 2007 without a will, sparking a battle that seems to be ending with people losing the ability to enjoy "their" resort "property" (quotes because people are warned all the time about the murkiness around property rights when USians buy in Mexico). I mean who writes "close to heaven" in a context that implies a geographic location.

(Fun Fact: Close to Heaven and South of Ensenada was the working title of Slayer's first draft of South of Heaven, back when they were starting out as a surf rock band called "Araya and the Surf Slayers")

Screen Shot 2021-04-10 at 9.20.54 AM.png
Screen Shot 2021-04-10 at 9.20.54 AM.png (71.24 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Screen Shot 2021-04-10 at 9.28.49 AM.png
Screen Shot 2021-04-10 at 9.28.49 AM.png (239.15 KiB) Viewed 190 times
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12759
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by JD »

Let's see if I can sum this up briefly... "Actually showing disturbing footage of police killing PoC doesn't help us in our fight against racism; therefore, we should punish any media outlets that do it."

https://www.v
ox.com/first-person/22391964/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-adam-toledo-police-violence
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19625
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by lunchstealer »

JD wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 14:39 Let's see if I can sum this up briefly... "Actually showing disturbing footage of police killing PoC doesn't help us in our fight against racism; therefore, we should punish any media outlets that do it."

https://www.v
ox.com/first-person/22391964/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-adam-toledo-police-violence
I don't think they understand what sparked the months of protest this summer. Or do they think that that shouldn't have happened, not because Floyd shouldn't have been killed, but because the whole thing should've been sanitized. I mean, I didn't watch any of the footage of the Stone-Douglass shooting either, but that doesn't mean nobody should have been able to see it.

That's the kind of shit for which trigger warnings are appropriate, but goddamn you guys that it is horrific is part of the value in spurring people to actually give enough shit to stop it.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 15815
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Eric the .5b »

This is why I said it's going to take at least another few Fergusons, back during Ferguson.

The proof has always been "out there", the only change is when people--or more specifically, white voters--are aware of it. White voters have to be convinced these things happen, that they aren't excusable, and they aren't just wildly isolated incidents. And when the first tepid reforms are put in place, that these things are still happening.

Does that suck immensely? Yes. Are white voters suddenly going to get all, pardon the dreaded expression, woke about these issues without that happening? No.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9406
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Pham Nuwen »

I've said it before but if they want to get through to old white people, the protesters have to wear collared shirts, khakis, and socks with sandals while waving American flags. If the police are shown fucking up people that look like them then old white people flip out.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19625
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by lunchstealer »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 22:28 I've said it before but if they want to get through to old white people, the protesters have to wear collared shirts, khakis, and socks with sandals while waving American flags. If the police are shown fucking up people that look like them then old white people flip out.
And replication crisis and all but there've been some studies that show that even woke liberal white folks care more and get the message better when you show the cases where it happens to white people, so we need to start putting Tony Timpa and Daniel Shaver and Thomas Kelly on shirts with Philando Castille and Breonna Taylor and George Floyd and Eric Garner and ....
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16697
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by dhex »

"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 15815
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Eric the .5b »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 22:28 I've said it before but if they want to get through to old white people, the protesters have to wear collared shirts, khakis, and socks with sandals while waving American flags. If the police are shown fucking up people that look like them then old white people flip out.
Likely to help. See my observations about how the pot legalization movement suddenly became mainstream.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
User avatar
lshap
Posts: 250
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 21:44
Location: Flori-duh

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by lshap »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 26 Apr 2021, 22:28 I've said it before but if they want to get through to old white people, the protesters have to wear collared shirts, khakis, and socks with sandals while waving American flags. If the police are shown fucking up people that look like them then old white people flip out.
This describes every white lady liberal over 60 that I've seen at protests.
Ok not the socks.
-linguist
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17924
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: When journalism goes bad

Post by Aresen »

What would really help is if one of the Derek Chauvin clones still on the job were to beat the crap out of a white grandmother on video.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
Post Reply