Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 15815
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Eric the .5b »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 16:46Even as we discuss this, prison issues have already been backburnered.
They're quick!
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17924
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Aresen »

Eric the .5b wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 16:52
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 16:46Even as we discuss this, prison issues have already been backburnered.
They're quick!
Ain't it amazing how executive orders can solve everything!
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12759
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by JD »

I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31110
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Warren »

JD wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 12:10 Every now and then, NYC does something right: New York City Ends Qualified Immunity For Police Officers, Becoming 1st In Nation To Do So
We'll see how that plays out.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17924
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Aresen »

Warren wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 17:37
JD wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 12:10 Every now and then, NYC does something right: New York City Ends Qualified Immunity For Police Officers, Becoming 1st In Nation To Do So
We'll see how that plays out.
Agree. They're going to have to fight the police union on one end and SCOTUS on the other.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20375
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Hugh Akston »

I'm not sure how civil courts work in NYC, but it seems to me that you would need a state law (like the one in CO) to actually make that kind of thing stick.

But no matter what level the law is passed at, it is definitely heading for a SCOTUS challenge.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21248
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 18:27 I'm not sure how civil courts work in NYC, but it seems to me that you would need a state law (like the one in CO) to actually make that kind of thing stick.

But no matter what level the law is passed at, it is definitely heading for a SCOTUS challenge.
I'd say the smart money is on it being reversed by NY legislators or the NY Court of Appeals (which I think is what they call their supreme court) long before the federal courts touch it.
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19625
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by lunchstealer »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 21:05
Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 18:27 I'm not sure how civil courts work in NYC, but it seems to me that you would need a state law (like the one in CO) to actually make that kind of thing stick.

But no matter what level the law is passed at, it is definitely heading for a SCOTUS challenge.
I'd say the smart money is on it being reversed by NY legislators or the NY Court of Appeals (which I think is what they call their supreme court) long before the federal courts touch it.
So long as it is creating a new class of tort at the state/municipal level, would SCOTUS even get to hear it? Qualified immunity as SCOTUS doctrine is, IIUC, a sort of judicial amendment to a specific set of federal laws which were originally aimed at making it possible to sue officers in federal court for violations made at the state level. If NYC is doing this at the local level seems like SCOTUS doesn't have a say, does it?
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21248
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

lunchstealer wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 22:58
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 21:05
Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Mar 2021, 18:27 I'm not sure how civil courts work in NYC, but it seems to me that you would need a state law (like the one in CO) to actually make that kind of thing stick.

But no matter what level the law is passed at, it is definitely heading for a SCOTUS challenge.
I'd say the smart money is on it being reversed by NY legislators or the NY Court of Appeals (which I think is what they call their supreme court) long before the federal courts touch it.
So long as it is creating a new class of tort at the state/municipal level, would SCOTUS even get to hear it? Qualified immunity as SCOTUS doctrine is, IIUC, a sort of judicial amendment to a specific set of federal laws which were originally aimed at making it possible to sue officers in federal court for violations made at the state level. If NYC is doing this at the local level seems like SCOTUS doesn't have a say, does it?
That's certainly the sane, sensible take. But cases get shoehorned into federal courts all the time, so I wouldn't bet the farm. The good news, however, is that the current Court is more likely to defer to legislative authority, so a SCOTUS decision might actually whittle away at QI.
User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 2005
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by dead_elvis »

13/10



From the thread :D
79d26e9912704b3aeab82f9c62986c28fcfc252b.jpeg
79d26e9912704b3aeab82f9c62986c28fcfc252b.jpeg (108.99 KiB) Viewed 511 times
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17924
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Aresen »

Somebody give that dog a biscuit.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 15815
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Eric the .5b »

Seems like a rare successful internal use-of-force audit.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
User avatar
lshap
Posts: 250
Joined: 04 Jul 2011, 21:44
Location: Flori-duh

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by lshap »

Now we know who really polices the police.
-linguist
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16697
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by dhex »

"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21248
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I wonder if anyone has pointed out to Sen. Warren how many run-of-the-mill arrestees awaiting trial face the same treatment.
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12759
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by JD »

NYC is actually building some useful new infrastructure.
Here is where the final phase of a 50-year long journey to create a backup for the city’s water supply will soon break ground, with workers blasting out two enormous shafts, burrowing down more than 600 feet.

The shafts will connect the surrounding communities to City Tunnel No. 3, a 60-mile water delivery system that the city has been building since 1970. They will also allow the city to shut down and repair City Tunnel No. 2 for the first time in 85 years.
That said, I am not entirely sanguine about the fact that City Tunnel No. 3 has been under construction longer than I have been alive...
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 14930
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Kolohe »

The biggest often unremarked on big projects in cities these days are replacement of the water and sewer systems, between a lot of them being past their centennial and current EPA rules.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
User avatar
Highway
Posts: 14150
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Highway »

Kolohe wrote: 24 Apr 2021, 18:18 The biggest often unremarked on big projects in cities these days are replacement of the water and sewer systems, between a lot of them being past their centennial and current EPA rules.
And frequently the biggest liability hanging over the figurative heads of those same cities, municipalities, and other localities. Most places are barely keeping up with the failures, with very little general thought going into the replacement of the miles and miles of relatively ancient piping that is in a Schrodinger's Pipe sort of state, where you don't know if it's in good shape or bad shape until it fails, which it could do at any time.

And for the most part, the public cares very little, and feels that these replacements are either not important or, even worse, too disruptive so they actively block the projects. My firm has been working on the replacement of one line that runs through a bunch of people's backyards, just over the line from DC, and the design of this one sewer line, replacing one that's known to be in poor shape and over 100 years old, made out of vitrified clay, has taken over 8 years of neighborhood wrangling, because there are people who are blocking it because it would mess up their backyards, or because they think that clearing some trees would increase seepage into their basements. I had to write what was probably the most ridiculous paper I've had to generate, mostly a literature review, about whether having more trees increases or decreases the amount of groundwater (answer: Nobody knows for certain, and there's no known correlation either way).
Well, that was a long walk down a windy beach to a cafe that was closed...
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31110
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Warren »

Highway wrote: 24 Apr 2021, 20:50 ...or because they think that clearing some trees would increase seepage into their basements.
How does that work? Because the roots are soaking up the water?
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
Highway
Posts: 14150
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Highway »

Warren wrote: 25 Apr 2021, 10:42
Highway wrote: 24 Apr 2021, 20:50 ...or because they think that clearing some trees would increase seepage into their basements.
How does that work? Because the roots are soaking up the water?
That was the belief. Evapotranspiration is trees taking groundwater and evaporating it away. But especially in this case, that was probably more than balanced by the mechanism of those same tree roots ponding rainfall and increasing infiltration by sticking up above the ground surface. Plus, there's more infiltration in wooded areas because of the relative openness of the soil and cover conditions.

This area was also on a very steep slope, and it's the people at the bottom of the hill complaining about seepage into their houses. Which is a "well, yeah" kind of thing.
Well, that was a long walk down a windy beach to a cafe that was closed...
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31110
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Warren »

Highway wrote: 25 Apr 2021, 14:09
That was the belief. Evapotranspiration is trees taking groundwater and evaporating it away. But especially in this case, that was probably more than balanced by the mechanism of those same tree roots ponding rainfall and increasing infiltration by sticking up above the ground surface. Plus, there's more infiltration in wooded areas because of the relative openness of the soil and cover conditions.
That's what experience has taught me: The best thing for drying out the yard is lush grass in sunshine and wind.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Post Reply