Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Aresen
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Aresen »

Jennifer wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 15:14 This could be cross-posted as a "random covid-19 observation": the county where I live has a lot of poor people (as does the Atlanta area in general -- lots of wealth crammed next to lots of poverty), and the schools have been closed since March, but Jeff noticed a couple days ago that every weekday the school bus still comes to this neighborhood: not to take kids to school, but to pass out bag lunches to kids who otherwise might go hungry without that in-school lunch.
Have the parents requested the lunches be doped with ritalin yet? :twisted:
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Aresen wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 15:42
Jennifer wrote: 23 Sep 2020, 15:14 This could be cross-posted as a "random covid-19 observation": the county where I live has a lot of poor people (as does the Atlanta area in general -- lots of wealth crammed next to lots of poverty), and the schools have been closed since March, but Jeff noticed a couple days ago that every weekday the school bus still comes to this neighborhood: not to take kids to school, but to pass out bag lunches to kids who otherwise might go hungry without that in-school lunch.
Have the parents requested the lunches be doped with ritalin yet? :twisted:
You misspelled ketamine
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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I filed a complaint with the city about a broken street light down by the crick, and they fixed it a mere six months later! Now to file a complaint about the one next to it...
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Hugh Akston wrote: 04 Dec 2020, 21:34 I filed a complaint with the city about a broken street light down by the crick, and they fixed it a mere six months later! Now to file a complaint about the one next to it...
You know the underage kids that go down by the crick to drink are shooting out the lights right?
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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crick?
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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You know, right next to the watson.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Pham Nuwen wrote: 05 Dec 2020, 13:30crick?
Cricks are the trailer parks of watercourses.

http://www.finefishing.com/1flyfish/hum ... hcrick.htm
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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"Biden to order DOJ to end private prison contracts as part of racial equity push"
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/26/biden-t ... r=sharebar
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Ellie wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 16:41 "Biden to order DOJ to end private prison contracts as part of racial equity push"
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/26/biden-t ... r=sharebar
Well, it's not nothing. But it's pretty damn close.
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Aresen
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 16:54
Ellie wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 16:41 "Biden to order DOJ to end private prison contracts as part of racial equity push"
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/26/biden-t ... r=sharebar
Well, it's not nothing. But it's pretty damn close.
Sounds more like a payoff to public sector unions than anything else.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Eric the .5b »

Yeah, I've said my piece on the unseriousness regarding private prisons.

Though at this point, I'd wish they'd just ban them, so as to take away the scapegoat.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Eric the .5b wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 19:50 Yeah, I've said my piece on the unseriousness regarding private prisons.

Though at this point, I'd wish they'd just ban them, so as to take away the scapegoat.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Hey, if it makes an idiot babble, maybe it has promise.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Eric the .5b wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 20:29 Hey, if it makes an idiot babble, maybe it has promise.
Haven't followed the whole discussion obviously, but I agree with you about private prisons needing to go. "Orange is the New Black" illustrated it pretty well...

- a for-profit industry has motives that go against the public interest of correction/rehabilitation.
- turning prisons into capitalist enterprise encourages them to find more "customers" and cut costs to increase profits.

It's perverse.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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lshap wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 20:44
Eric the .5b wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 20:29 Hey, if it makes an idiot babble, maybe it has promise.
Haven't followed the whole discussion obviously, but I agree with you about private prisons needing to go. "Orange is the New Black" illustrated it pretty well...

- a for-profit industry has motives that go against the public interest of correction/rehabilitation.
- turning prisons into capitalist enterprise encourages them to find more "customers" and cut costs to increase profits.

It's perverse.
Sure. But I think the general consensus around these parts is that eliminating or limiting private prisons is a band aid on an aterial cut. Politicians get to say they’ve done something to address the uglier side of the justice system, meanwhile the prison combine drives on.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Agreed, then. Incremental steps may be the only path, though.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Mo »

lshap wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 20:29 Hey, if it makes an idiot babble, maybe it has promise.
Haven't followed the whole discussion obviously, but I agree with you about private prisons needing to go. "Orange is the New Black" illustrated it pretty well...

- a for-profit industry has motives that go against the public interest of correction/rehabilitation.
- turning prisons into capitalist enterprise encourages them to find more "customers" and cut costs to increase profits.

It's perverse.
Part of the problem is that prison guard unions act in the same way.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Contracted public 'services' are no better or worse than the same services performed by government employees. The incentives, including perverse incentives, differ some and overlap some but in the grand scheme of what's wrong with the criminal justice system it's trivial and, as noted above, a nod to public unions.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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Tbh, as part of his racial equity thing, I'm surprised he and Kamalalamadingdong didn't push for more minority-owned prisons.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 22:55 Contracted public 'services' are no better or worse than the same services performed by government employees. The incentives, including perverse incentives, differ some and overlap some but in the grand scheme of what's wrong with the criminal justice system it's trivial and, as noted above, a nod to public unions.
Cosigned. The main objection to privately-run prisons seems to be that they're private, like the government can't, and doesn't, imprison tens of thousands of people in inhumane conditions all by itself.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

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JD wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 09:44
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 22:55 Contracted public 'services' are no better or worse than the same services performed by government employees. The incentives, including perverse incentives, differ some and overlap some but in the grand scheme of what's wrong with the criminal justice system it's trivial and, as noted above, a nod to public unions.
Cosigned. The main objection to privately-run prisons seems to be that they're private, like the government can't, and doesn't, imprison tens of thousands of people in inhumane conditions all by itself.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Mo »

JD wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 22:55 Contracted public 'services' are no better or worse than the same services performed by government employees. The incentives, including perverse incentives, differ some and overlap some but in the grand scheme of what's wrong with the criminal justice system it's trivial and, as noted above, a nod to public unions.
Cosigned. The main objection to privately-run prisons seems to be that they're private, like the government can't, and doesn't, imprison tens of thousands of people in inhumane conditions all by itself.
The main difference being is with government run, the employees are a single interest group. And you can mitigate it some by ending public service unions. With private, the employees and shareholders are an interest group and can span multiple geographies.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Eric the .5b »

lshap wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 20:44- a for-profit industry has motives that go against the public interest of correction/rehabilitation.
- turning prisons into capitalist enterprise encourages them to find more "customers" and cut costs to increase profits.
Except there's no evidence that private prisons are meaningfully worse than public prisons, which make up all but a small fraction of US prisons and contain the vast majority of prisoners. And we see the exact same dynamic from public prison guard unions, just writ much larger—remember, they're the ones who helped push mandatory minimums. Meanwhile, there's a large population of progressives who, when the topic of the prison system comes up, will obsessively rant about the evils of private prisons (and only private prisons).

The whole thing is basically the moderate left's version of "defund the NEA and NPR in the name of limited government". And while I might think it'd be nice to take the private enterprise scapegoat away and shame those twits into actually putting some energy toward fixing prisons, it's probably more likely that they'd declare victory and backburner the whole issue.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by Eric the .5b »

Mo wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 10:38The main difference being is with government run, the employees are a single interest group. And you can mitigate it some by ending public service unions.
I'd love to (or at least for anything related to law enforcement), but I'm in a realist mood today. There's no political route to this. It'd be more plausible to accomplish the literal defunding of the police.
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Re: Surprise! It's Government's Good Side

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Eric the .5b wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 15:32
lshap wrote: 26 Jan 2021, 20:44- a for-profit industry has motives that go against the public interest of correction/rehabilitation.
- turning prisons into capitalist enterprise encourages them to find more "customers" and cut costs to increase profits.
Except there's no evidence that private prisons are meaningfully worse than public prisons, which make up all but a small fraction of US prisons and contain the vast majority of prisoners. And we see the exact same dynamic from public prison guard unions, just writ much larger—remember, they're the ones who helped push mandatory minimums. Meanwhile, there's a large population of progressives who, when the topic of the prison system comes up, will obsessively rant about the evils of private prisons (and only private prisons).

The whole thing is basically the moderate left's version of "defund the NEA and NPR in the name of limited government". And while I might think it'd be nice to take the private enterprise scapegoat away and shame those twits into actually putting some energy toward fixing prisons, it's probably more likely that they'd declare victory and backburner the whole issue.
Even as we discuss this, prison issues have already been backburnered.
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