The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19401
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by lunchstealer »

Hugh Akston wrote: 23 Jan 2021, 22:30 This seems like the sort of incident that might warrant a congressional commission.
can't tell if joking
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16531
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by dhex »

lunchstealer wrote: 24 Jan 2021, 14:17
Hugh Akston wrote: 23 Jan 2021, 22:30 This seems like the sort of incident that might warrant a congressional commission.
can't tell if joking
Speaking of which
https://nypost.com/2021/01/24/its-time- ... f-america/

Only got to the third graf
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20972
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Republicans against corporations. Hey, maybe they'll be in favor of campaign finance reforms next.
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9248
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Pham Nuwen »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 24 Jan 2021, 22:10 Republicans against corporations. Hey, maybe they'll be in favor of campaign finance reforms next.
History is a wheel ....
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

Got to hand it to him, I haven't seen an elected official so openly whiny and ignorant since Trunp's twitter got shut off.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16531
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by dhex »

He is, as queen Elizabeth once said, "a right cunt and can fuck off now".
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

The Far Right’s Fear of ‘Glowies’
During the Trump administration, many far-right groups’ main concern was figuring out how to recruit more people to the cause. But as federal law-enforcement officials continue to round up people suspected of involvement in the January 6 insurrection at the Capitol, and Joe Biden’s administration promises a crackdown on white-supremacist and anti-government radicals, extremists are on the verge of a crack-up, posting widely and worriedly about spies in their midst—“glowies.” That’s the term far-right groups use to describe people they suspect of being federal law-enforcement agents or informants infiltrating their communication channels, trying to catch them plotting violence, or prodding them into illegal acts.
Regardless of their affiliation, the rioters largely saw the day as a success. To some, it was a sign that the broad far-right movement is growing in strength. “The race war that they really fantasize about, you know, ‘It feels like that we can actually bring this to fruition now, that we’re really gathering steam following what happened on the 6th,’” Peter Simi, a sociologist at Chapman University who studies extremists, told me. Counterterrorism officials are predicting that the boogaloo movement, in particular, might commit additional violence in the coming weeks.
Still, the extremists’ glow-dar isn’t very good, Stall said. They miss people who are very obviously federal agents, or they accuse random users of glowing because they’ll say something like “Time to kill all Democrats.” Police officers who sympathize with white supremacists have been accused of glowing when they actually appear to be trying to help the extremists’ cause.
But even if federal-agent infiltration doesn’t lead to any arrests, it might serve another useful purpose. These extremist groups, which were already predisposed to paranoia, now have something to be paranoid about. Real or perceived glowies are putting a healthy fear into these groups, which thrive on the premise that they are on the right side of history. It’s humbling to go from being a well-regarded CEO to being judged a criminal and a terrorist.
I've been thinking about that last part periodically since the insurrection. A couple of high-profile busts made by infiltrators or informants might drive the already-paranoid alt-right groups to eat each other.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 31203
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by thoreau »

How will they tell the difference between the cop who's there for love of authoritarianism and the cop who's also there for love of authoritarianism but also because he's trying to bust them?
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
--JD
User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 26691
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Jennifer »

Even back before Trump was an actual political force, when websites like Stormfront were the cutting edge of techno-racism, in the parts of those forums visible to any online passerby rather than limited to registered members, I read and saw many a post warning people "That one guy who is always trying to escalate things, or urging people to quit being mere keyboard warriors and go into the real world and Do Something Violent to stop white genocide and Jewish all-around evilness -- that one most likely is a fed and an agent provocateur. Don't listen to them, and don't invite them to your real-world offline get-togethers, either."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17761
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Aresen »

Hugh Akston wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 16:05 The Far Right’s Fear of ‘Glowies’
During the Trump administration, many far-right groups’ main concern was figuring out how to recruit more people to the cause. But as federal law-enforcement officials continue to round up people suspected of involvement in the January 6 insurrection at the Capitol, and Joe Biden’s administration promises a crackdown on white-supremacist and anti-government radicals, extremists are on the verge of a crack-up, posting widely and worriedly about spies in their midst—“glowies.” That’s the term far-right groups use to describe people they suspect of being federal law-enforcement agents or informants infiltrating their communication channels, trying to catch them plotting violence, or prodding them into illegal acts.
Regardless of their affiliation, the rioters largely saw the day as a success. To some, it was a sign that the broad far-right movement is growing in strength. “The race war that they really fantasize about, you know, ‘It feels like that we can actually bring this to fruition now, that we’re really gathering steam following what happened on the 6th,’” Peter Simi, a sociologist at Chapman University who studies extremists, told me. Counterterrorism officials are predicting that the boogaloo movement, in particular, might commit additional violence in the coming weeks.
Still, the extremists’ glow-dar isn’t very good, Stall said. They miss people who are very obviously federal agents, or they accuse random users of glowing because they’ll say something like “Time to kill all Democrats.” Police officers who sympathize with white supremacists have been accused of glowing when they actually appear to be trying to help the extremists’ cause.
But even if federal-agent infiltration doesn’t lead to any arrests, it might serve another useful purpose. These extremist groups, which were already predisposed to paranoia, now have something to be paranoid about. Real or perceived glowies are putting a healthy fear into these groups, which thrive on the premise that they are on the right side of history. It’s humbling to go from being a well-regarded CEO to being judged a criminal and a terrorist.
I've been thinking about that last part periodically since the insurrection. A couple of high-profile busts made by infiltrators or informants might drive the already-paranoid alt-right groups to eat each other.
In my student leftist days, it was an article of faith that the more extremist a person's rhetoric, the more likely he was an infilitrator. I suppose this has been true since the first secret police reported to the first autocrat.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 31203
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by thoreau »

When Josh Hawley was 15 he wrote a newspaper piece defending right-wing militias in the wake of Oklahoma City.

https://www.businessinsider.com/josh-ha ... 995-2021-1

I don't fault a person for what they were like at 15. I fault them for still being like that.
"...if that monkey gets any smarter it's going to start shorting TSLA."
--JD
User avatar
dhex
Posts: 16531
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by dhex »

https://nypost.com/2021/01/25/portland- ... tside-pub/

Shits getting crazy and knock em dead Ted is not here to fuck around.
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God
User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 26691
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Jennifer »

Jennifer wrote: 09 Jan 2021, 18:48 I would never try storming the capitol or similar things, of course, but if I DID I would try to do so in a non-idiotic way where I have at least a CHANCE of getting away with it. For starters: wear a fucking mask .... I'd even buy new-to-me clothes and shoes in styles and colors I usually never wear (including the hat, mask and big mirror sunglasses), and throw them all away as soon as I was done....
In the CapitolConsequences subreddit there's all sorts of posts about people who were identified thanks to their very distinctive clothing or accessories which they wore not just in the capitol, but on their social media profiles or similarly idiotic (if you're planning to commit a federal offense in front of lots of cameras) places. ZIptie guy and his mother were caught partly because right after the riot, they posed for lots of photos with their fellow Trumpsters at the hotel lounge where a lot of them were staying, again while wearing clothes or accessories which would make them identifiable even if their faces weren't visible as well.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12589
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by JD »

It honestly seems like a lot of the rioters thought they were going to win, so consequences weren't an issue. That's insofar as far as they thought about consequences at all, of course; a lot of them seem to have treated it as some kind of LARP. The mob is a brainless beast indeed.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

They also thought that Lame Duck a l'Orange would be there for them, which is the lulziest part.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
nicole
Posts: 11069
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by nicole »

thoreau wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 20:23 When Josh Hawley was 15 he wrote a newspaper piece defending right-wing militias in the wake of Oklahoma City.

https://www.businessinsider.com/josh-ha ... 995-2021-1

I don't fault a person for what they were like at 15. I fault them for still being like that.
"Many of the people populating these movements are not radical, right-wing, pro-assault weapons freaks as they were originally stereotyped," Hawley wrote of militia groups. "Dismissed by the media and treated with disdain by their elected leaders, these citizens come together and form groups that often draw more media fire as anti-government hate gatherings."

He added: "Feeling alienated from their government and the rest of society, they often become disenchanted and slip into talks of 'conspiracy theories' about how the federal government is out to get them."
These seem like they're probably among Hawley's least objectionable beliefs to me, but what do I know.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9248
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Pham Nuwen »

I just watched one of the capitol rioters exit a federal courthouse. Ya'll!!! She leaped three steps and took off at a sprint! IN FUCKING HEELS!!! She was just a distant figure in a matter of seconds. Like goddamn. All I could think of was that episode of Boondocks where grandad is dating a prostitute. "Grandad .... does she run really fast in heels?"

Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3523
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Number 6 »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 09:32 I just watched one of the capitol rioters exit a federal courthouse. Ya'll!!! She leaped three steps and took off at a sprint! IN FUCKING HEELS!!! She was just a distant figure in a matter of seconds. Like goddamn. All I could think of was that episode of Boondocks where grandad is dating a prostitute. "Grandad .... does she run really fast in heels?"

Scientifically speaking, Tom, has not hitting a MAGA achieved the desired results?
Middle America is bestest America
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

lololol
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys extremist group, has a past as an informer for federal and local law enforcement, repeatedly working undercover for investigators after he was arrested in 2012, according to a former prosecutor and a transcript of a 2014 federal court proceeding obtained by Reuters.
Tarrio’s then-lawyer Jeffrey Feiler said in court that his client had worked undercover in numerous investigations, one involving the sale of anabolic steroids, another regarding “wholesale prescription narcotics” and a third targeting human smuggling. He said Tarrio helped police uncover three marijuana grow houses, and was a “prolific” cooperator.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 26691
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Jennifer »

Hugh Akston wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 12:27 lololol
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Enrique Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys extremist group, has a past as an informer for federal and local law enforcement, repeatedly working undercover for investigators after he was arrested in 2012, according to a former prosecutor and a transcript of a 2014 federal court proceeding obtained by Reuters.
Tarrio’s then-lawyer Jeffrey Feiler said in court that his client had worked undercover in numerous investigations, one involving the sale of anabolic steroids, another regarding “wholesale prescription narcotics” and a third targeting human smuggling. He said Tarrio helped police uncover three marijuana grow houses, and was a “prolific” cooperator.
OTOH, it also says this:
Tarrio, in an interview with Reuters Tuesday, denied working undercover or cooperating in cases against others. “I don’t know any of this,” he said, when asked about the transcript. “I don’t recall any of this.”
[inhales] You know what they say about the Tens, man. [exhales] If you can remember them, you weren't really there. Heh heh heh.

/drug humor
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20189
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Hugh Akston »

This article about groups that help deprogram right-wing radicals reads like a laundry list of failed institutions
Chris Buckley, a war veteran and former Ku Klux Klan member who works at Parents for Peace, rejects arguments that anyone is “too far gone” for help. Drawing on his experience with heavy drug addiction and post-traumatic stress after his service in Afghanistan, Buckley said he is able to connect with those like him “who have come out of the military with hatred in their heart and a lack of understanding for what they experienced.”
The military must be aware of the epidemic of PTSD among people who have served in America's pointless forever wars, yet it keeps sending them over there and failing to properly care for/reintegrate them into society when they come back. Because, frankly, it doesn't matter to the military whether a solider catches a bullet from a Taliban fighter or from their own 9mm in their basement.
He has developed a 12-step program tailored to former military and law enforcement personnel — a group well represented at the Capitol riot, asserting that these communities are particularly vulnerable to radicalization. The program, “TraumAnon,” is being tested in a focus group with the Aurora Police department in Colorado.
Law enforcement is well aware of the white supremacy problem in its ranks, but either they can't stop it because they don't know what to look for or there are just too many of them, or they don't want to do anything about it because racially biased policing is the unstated goal.
The best time to step in is the “circling the drain” stage, when there is an opportunity to focus on teaching basic media literacy, said Hughes, who co-founded American University’s Polarization and Extremism Research and Innovation Lab (PERIL).
The public schools that people are forced to attend don't teach basic life skills like media literacy or financial management, but everybody is very concerned that the chinaman is beating America in cAlCuLuS.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Shem
Posts: 8854
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by Shem »

Making it all about PTSD misses the biggest problem. Most of the newly out vet issues don't occur because of PTSD, they happen because guys spend their entire adult lives in a totalizing institution, then they get out and suddenly there's no expansive rule system to tell them exactly how to advance in their careers, and no support system of other people serving to watch their private lives. 7 years of vets coming through the door, and it's gotten really clear to me that more than a few of them need the same sort of reintegration as people coming off long prison sentences.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20972
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: The capitol insurrection and its aftermath

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Shem wrote: 07 Feb 2021, 15:33 Making it all about PTSD misses the biggest problem. Most of the newly out vet issues don't occur because of PTSD, they happen because guys spend their entire adult lives in a totalizing institution, then they get out and suddenly there's no expansive rule system to tell them exactly how to advance in their careers, and no support system of other people serving to watch their private lives. 7 years of vets coming through the door, and it's gotten really clear to me that more than a few of them need the same sort of reintegration as people coming off long prison sentences.
For career military and combat veterans, sure. There are programs for retiring officers ("Don't wear your military tie and shoes to an interview," etc.) But the average length of service for noncoms is just under seven years. Most never see combat and most spend most of those years in more of a 9 to 5 life than civilians whose sum knowledge of the military comes from war movies.

The sort of noncom or officer who serves more than eight to ten years do so because they fit in military culture. The rest are paying off school obligations or getting some career training cheaply, that sort of thing, and they're happy to put it behind them when the time comes.

If anything, I'd say that 'totalizing institution' is closer to academia than prison. Moving from that culture to "the real world" is disorienting but so are any number of other significant life events. *shrug*
Post Reply