Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3539
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Number 6 »

Part of the issue, I think, is that the lower levels of medical education (sub-MD and BSN, and perhaps, sub-RN) are very much technical school based. Those who can memorize and regurgitate do just fine, but end up coming away with little, if any, scientific understanding. This is especially true among Paramedics, many of whom have no real interest in medicine and want only to get a -P after their name so that they can find a fire department job. That shows in my own department, where people who should damn well know better are declining the shot. I think three of us have gotten vaccinated. The rest are repeating stupid news stories about anaphylaxis* and even infertility.
I’m trying to gently nudge people, but when my skittles bag metaphor** doesn’t work, I’m left resisting the urge to scream, “We can fucking end this fucking thing, you brain dead fucking fuck, but when dumbshit, smooth-brained, galactically fucktarded imbeciles like you won’t fucking lead the way, and, in fucking fact, are leading in exactly the wrong fucking direction-the one that leads to yet more death and disability-AS A FUCKING SUPPOSED MEDICAL FUCKING PROFESSIONAL-we will never, ever, fucking EVER get out of this. Fuck you, and don’t fucking expect flowers in ICU, and I hope they fucking remove your gonads so your foul, mentally sub-normal DNA can’t spread any fucking farther, you mouth breathing, crypto-MAGA fuckwit!”. Somehow, that later doesn’t feel productive.

*Paramedics should know damn well that anaplylaxis is easily fixable, because THEY FUCKING DO IT on the regular.
**Actually, my husband’s metaphor. Imagine you are presented with two bags of skittles. You must chose one to pull a skittle from. One bag contains a thousand skittles, one (actually, probably none) of which is poisoned. The second bag contains 100 skittles. One skittle in that bag will kill you. Somewhere between 5 and 20 will leave you permanently disabled, to some extent. An unknown, but larger, number will knock you on your ass for a week. Now choose.
Middle America is bestest America
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9345
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

I have made the comment repeatedly that my profession and those who work alongside of us arent academically inclined as a group. This group is composed of nurses and techs of all kinds.

The observation is rarely received well.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3539
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Number 6 »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 18:59 I have made the comment repeatedly that my profession and those who work alongside of us arent academically inclined as a group. This group is composed of nurses and techs of all kinds.

The observation is rarely received well.
Of course they’re academically inclined. They once memorized a bunch of facts. That’s the same as an education, right?
Middle America is bestest America
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31012
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

Number 6 wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 21:47
Pham Nuwen wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 18:59 I have made the comment repeatedly that my profession and those who work alongside of us arent academically inclined as a group. This group is composed of nurses and techs of all kinds.

The observation is rarely received well.
Of course they’re academically inclined. They once memorized a bunch of facts. That’s the same as an education, right?
He dropped the apostrophe and you flipped it.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20298
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Hugh Akston »

Number 6 wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 21:47
Pham Nuwen wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 18:59 I have made the comment repeatedly that my profession and those who work alongside of us arent academically inclined as a group. This group is composed of nurses and techs of all kinds.

The observation is rarely received well.
Of course they’re academically inclined. They once memorized a bunch of facts. That’s the same as an education, right?
According to my elementary school teachers, yes.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31012
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 23:19
Number 6 wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 21:47
Pham Nuwen wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 18:59 I have made the comment repeatedly that my profession and those who work alongside of us arent academically inclined as a group. This group is composed of nurses and techs of all kinds.

The observation is rarely received well.
Of course they’re academically inclined. They once memorized a bunch of facts. That’s the same as an education, right?
According to my elementary school teachers, yes.
Public school teachers I assume.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9345
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Number 6 wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 21:47
Pham Nuwen wrote: 08 Jan 2021, 18:59 I have made the comment repeatedly that my profession and those who work alongside of us arent academically inclined as a group. This group is composed of nurses and techs of all kinds.

The observation is rarely received well.
Of course they’re academically inclined. They once memorized a bunch of facts. That’s the same as an education, right?
That is the attitude mostly. And its lazy. Most of the training and learning is hands on and practical. And the group likes to eat its young to keep that attitude.

A good example is some cow-orkers think I'm crazy that I'm not worried about the doc killing anyone since they know the story of doctor death. But I know the 20 year icu nurse has killed like 5 times as many people with just simple honest mistakes involving medication. And you cant voice such an opinion in my work setting.

Nobody thinks about that in the or. I label and follow any meds I receive. If I dont see it or I didnt do it then it didnt happen. I check up. And people think I'm overzealous.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Highway
Posts: 14117
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Highway »

I've said before, and sounds like it's still true, that the nurses and techs who don't give a shit about doing the details of their job properly are the ones who have the long tenures, because they harass and harangue the newer nurses who actually do care, who actually try to make the place run better, until the newer nurses quit. They hold 'experience' above everything else, even if it's at the expense of doing jobs properly. And when someone comes in and tries to do a good job, it makes them look awful, so their reaction is to harass that person to get rid of them.

You've been a floor nurse for 20 years, huh? So why didn't you ever get promoted? Probably because you're probably a shitty person who couldn't handle the job, and you've never done quite enough enough times to get fired, because there's a continual nursing shortage that you contribute to by running people out of the field. But at least your bosses recognize that you'd do many times more damage if they tried to move you up, so the best you can do is get to be temporary charge nurse when there's absolutely noone else available.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."
User avatar
Jake
Posts: 2964
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 18:38

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jake »

Highway wrote: 09 Jan 2021, 11:36 I've said before, and sounds like it's still true, that the nurses and techs who don't give a shit about doing the details of their job properly are the ones who have the long tenures, because they harass and harangue the newer nurses who actually do care, who actually try to make the place run better, until the newer nurses quit. They hold 'experience' above everything else, even if it's at the expense of doing jobs properly. And when someone comes in and tries to do a good job, it makes them look awful, so their reaction is to harass that person to get rid of them.
Replace all the nurse-specific stuff with sergeant-specific stuff, and you are describing exactly my experience in the Army.
"One doesn't want to be a Chicken Little but OTOH does the sky look closer to you? It looks closer to me." -- Warren
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9345
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

I think it's just growing comfortable and not wanting to change. The push isn't to run people out but to make them conform. The result is the same though.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21156
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

I received notification last night that I'm registered to receive the vaccine as a 1B in Dallas County. There are at least 100,000 people on that list but I'm hopeful I can get the first round by the end of the month.
User avatar
Pham Nuwen
Posts: 9345
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 02:17

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 11 Jan 2021, 15:10 I received notification last night that I'm registered to receive the vaccine as a 1B in Dallas County. There are at least 100,000 people on that list but I'm hopeful I can get the first round by the end of the month.
Fuck yeah.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 26792
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

What happens if you get the first shot of the covid vaccine, then get exposed to/infected with the virus before your second shot -- do you still get some protective benefit, compared to someone who ever got any vaccine at all?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
User avatar
Jadagul
Posts: 7844
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 18:51

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jadagul »

Jennifer wrote: 12 Jan 2021, 18:58 What happens if you get the first shot of the covid vaccine, then get exposed to/infected with the virus before your second shot -- do you still get some protective benefit, compared to someone who ever got any vaccine at all?
Almost definitely yes, starting something like 14 days after the first shot, but there's some controversy about how much.
User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 20298
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: Elev. 5280 ft

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Hugh Akston »

When in doubt, do what you know
China is rushing to build a massive quarantine camp that can house more than 4,000 people, after an outbreak of Covid-19 this month that has left tens of millions of people under strict lockdown.

The quarantine camp is located on the outskirts of Shijiazhuang, the provincial capital of Hebei province, which surrounds the country's capital, Beijing.

China has largely contained the spread of the virus, with much of the country returning to normal. However, a sudden rise in cases has alarmed officials and raised concerns ahead of the Lunar New Year, the county's most important annual festival, during which hundreds of millions of people are expected to travel to visit family members.

Officials in Shijiazhuang, where the outbreak is centered, have initiated mass testing and strict lockdowns, moving entire villages into centralized quarantine facilities in a bid to curb the spread of the virus.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Well if they're blaming libertarians again then things must be going back to normal." ~dbcooper
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12691
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by JD »

On the plus side, at least he's a believer in vaccines...
Texas doctor accused of stealing COVID-19 vaccine to give to his family and friends
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18921
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by dbcooper »

Some early first dose Pfizer vaccine data from Israel.

Slip inside a sleeping bag.
User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17855
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Aresen »

dbcooper wrote: 22 Jan 2021, 22:47 Some early first dose Pfizer vaccine data from Israel.
That's good news.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
User avatar
JD
Posts: 12691
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by JD »

Not for the first time I am glad not to live in China...
China Is Now Requiring COVID-19 Tests Taken by Anal Swab

(admittedly the headline is slightly misleading; it's stool sample or anal swab.)
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21156
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

JD wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 13:05 Not for the first time I am glad not to live in China...
China Is Now Requiring COVID-19 Tests Taken by Anal Swab

(admittedly the headline is slightly misleading; it's stool sample or anal swab.)
Rectum? It damn near killed 'im!
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 31012
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 14:53
JD wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 13:05 Not for the first time I am glad not to live in China...
China Is Now Requiring COVID-19 Tests Taken by Anal Swab

(admittedly the headline is slightly misleading; it's stool sample or anal swab.)
Rectum? It damn near killed 'im!
Gives whole new meaning to a mundane term like analysis.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 19539
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by lunchstealer »

swabbin' the poop deck amirite
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 21156
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

So, a couple of questions for those who might either know or, even better, know where evidence-based answers might be found:

My current understanding is that for those of us who have been or are in the process of being vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines there is a roughly 95% chance of protection against infection, meaning roughly 5% still run the same risk as the non-vaccinated. Correct?

What I've read, which is second-hand reporting, is that those vaccinated even if they do contract C-19 have an extremely low likelihood of it presenting as anything worse than a mild case of the flu. Correct?

Admittedly, these are self-interested question. Not only am I eager to get back out into the world, I have a very close friend in Baltimore who is dying and now in hospice. If he's still alive in three weeks (and he's been going up and down), I'm tempted to fly out to see him, still social distancing and all that, of course. Dumb idea or reasonable risk?

Finally, and this goes back to our conversation about the ethics of gaming the system (quasi-ethically), are vaccination centers experiencing 'left over' vaccines at the end of the day and, if so, are they likely to be willing and able to vaccinate anyone, um, hanging around at the right time?

Obviously, I'd be especially interested in hearing what our health professionals say about that last question, because I have a hunch this is happening often enough that it's known to be happening among the medical community but, for obvious reasons, such practice would not be made public.
User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18921
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by dbcooper »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 30 Jan 2021, 00:17 So, a couple of questions for those who might either know or, even better, know where evidence-based answers might be found:

My current understanding is that for those of us who have been or are in the process of being vaccinated with one of the mRNA vaccines there is a roughly 95% chance of protection against infection, meaning roughly 5% still run the same risk as the non-vaccinated. Correct?

What I've read, which is second-hand reporting, is that those vaccinated even if they do contract C-19 have an extremely low likelihood of it presenting as anything worse than a mild case of the flu. Correct?
Sounds about right. From the Pfizer/BioNTech phase III trial:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7745181/
Among 10 cases of severe Covid-19 with onset after the first dose, 9 occurred in placebo recipients and 1 in a BNT162b2 recipient.
South African strain is a complicating factor.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.
Post Reply