Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Jeff found someone's newly-filled second-dose vaccination card in a strip-mall parking lot. He stuck it in the door of the nearest business (a gym), since he couldn't think of any way to get in touch with the owner.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Jennifer wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 17:45 Jeff found someone's newly-filled second-dose vaccination card in a strip-mall parking lot. He stuck it in the door of the nearest business (a gym), since he couldn't think of any way to get in touch with the owner.
Didn't the card indicate where the vaccination was given?
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 17:47
Jennifer wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 17:45 Jeff found someone's newly-filled second-dose vaccination card in a strip-mall parking lot. He stuck it in the door of the nearest business (a gym), since he couldn't think of any way to get in touch with the owner.
Didn't the card indicate where the vaccination was given?
No. His guess was the nearby CVS in the opposite side of the same mall (were it me, that is where I would've gone to drop off the card, rather than the gym), but it would've been a bit of a distance to walk, and he still had to pick up his car from the repair shop.

Question is: did the card's owner drop it ... or deliberately discard it?
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

lunchstealer wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 15:56
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 15:46
lunchstealer wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 15:32
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 14:35
lunchstealer wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 13:54
thoreau wrote: 22 Apr 2021, 11:52 Burning Man will require proof of COVID vaccination.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news ... ium=social

I thought the point of Burning Man was to do all sorts of things that no doctor would ever recommend.
Yeah but we spread diseases at burning man the old fashioned way.
Rats and infected blankets?
That and open sewers.
In the desert? Cool!
Yeah, and then they dry up and inhaleable flakes get stirred up in the wind...
I for one welcome our new microbiological overlords.
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JD
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Most graphs I've seen show covid cases in raw numbers, but it's really interesting to look at them as per capita numbers. India's current surge is horrifying, but we forget just how huge India is - in per capita numbers, France is doing worse than India, and Germany and Canada are pretty close. And per capita, the UK, US, and France have all had worse spikes than India's current one.

Cumulatively, the US has been the world's hardest-hit per capita, followed by France, Brazil, the UK, Turkey, and Russia.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases
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Jadagul
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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JD wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 14:59 Most graphs I've seen show covid cases in raw numbers, but it's really interesting to look at them as per capita numbers. India's current surge is horrifying, but we forget just how huge India is - in per capita numbers, France is doing worse than India, and Germany and Canada are pretty close. And per capita, the UK, US, and France have all had worse spikes than India's current one.

Cumulatively, the US has been the world's hardest-hit per capita, followed by France, Brazil, the UK, Turkey, and Russia.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases
Be careful with those numbers, though. Those are "confirmed" cases, and actual cases in India are definitely being dramatically undercounted. We don't know how much they're being undercounted by, though, because we don't have a good count. I've seen estimates of 5x and I've seen estimates of 30x. I don't think anyone has a really good idea.

What we do know, though, is that India's health infrastructure is imploding in a way no one else's is right now. Of course, I'm sure they started with less capacity than France had. But the current crisis is that hospitals are just turning people away because they're incapable of treating more than a fraction of everyone. With a side of "crematoriums can't keep up with demand."
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Shem »

Case in point.
In the central city of Bhopal, some crematoriums have increased their capacity from dozens of pyres to more than 50. Yet there are still hours-long waits.

At the city’s Bhadbhada Vishram Ghat crematorium, workers said they cremated more than 110 people on Saturday, even as government figures in the entire city of 1.8 million put the total number of virus deaths at just 10.

“The virus is swallowing our city’s people like a monster,” said Mamtesh Sharma, an official at the site.

The unprecedented rush of bodies has forced the crematorium to skip individual ceremonies and exhaustive rituals that Hindus believe release the soul from the cycle of rebirth.


“We are just burning bodies as they arrive,” said Sharma. “It is as if we are in the middle of a war.”

The head gravedigger at New Delhi’s largest Muslim cemetery, where 1,000 people have been buried during the pandemic, said more bodies are arriving now than last year. “I fear we will run out of space very soon,” said Mohammad Shameem.
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thoreau
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by thoreau »

Goddamnit.

I'm never going to see certain friends in person ever again.

OTOH, some of my enemies will also never leave their houses.

I need to think about this.
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Aresen
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Is our sheep mentality is killing any chance of herd immunity?
Opinion: Instead of listening to scientists and doctors, too many of us are taking medical advice from conspiracy kooks, anti-vaxxers and a former reality TV personality.
The New York Times sent a reporter recently to rural Tennessee, an area where the population is predominantly white, Christian and Republican, and where the COVID-19 vaccine rate is very low.

The number of Americans who say they aren’t going to get vaccinated has become more and more concerning to public health officials.

The reporter described a scene in which a doctor – a man who nearly died after contracting the coronavirus – is speaking to an elderly unvaccinated patient.

The man says to the doctor, “How can we be sure there are no chips in the vaccine, like the things you put in your dog?”

“We can’t make microchips that small,” the doctor says.

“Well, it’s like a grain of rice,” says the patient.

The doctor tells him, “I couldn’t inject a grain of rice with a needle.”

The man, according to the report, won’t get the vaccine.

There is no pill for ignorance.

America’s giant pharmaceutical companies, with their tremendous resources and their armies of scientists, researchers and doctors, have come up with three effective vaccines for COVID-19. It was a scientific miracle for so short a time.

But there is no magic pill, no serum, no medicinal injection capable of warding off ignorance.

So it is unlikely the nation will achieve herd immunity.

A poll commissioned in February by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs found that as many as 44% of Republicans said they definitely or probably would not get vaccinated, as did 17% of Democrats.

And there is also the problem of those who might want the vaccine but for whom access is difficult. The homeless, for example.

Kavita Patel, a physician and health policy expert, said, “We could be sitting here in the winter-fall with an entirely different, scary version of the pandemic. One driven by a combination of variants and people who didn’t want to get vaccinated.”

There is an effort by some members of the Republican political elite to get their constituents vaccinated.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said recently, “I can say as a Republican man, as soon as it was my turn, I took the vaccine.”

But the death knell to herd immunity was the skepticism brought on by too many of us taking medical advice from conspiracy kooks, anti-vaxxers, misinformed commentators, and a former reality TV personality who resided for a time in the White House.

Back in January, by the way, the former president and the first lady, without a photographer present and without alerting the news media, very quietly got vaccinated.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Well if they won't get vaccinated and they don't wear masks or self quarantine, maybe they'll just get sick.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
Agree. I wouldn't even mind if it was just they and their spawn who contract the disease*. But a larger pool of susceptibles means more opportunity for the virus to produce variants that come back and infect those of us who get vaccinated against the original strains.

*Ignoring the pressure that puts on medical resources.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
We have an apparatchik class for whom the party line is more important than any idea.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas.
we have a marketplace of ideas, it's just a hyperparticipatory funky cold medina that operates at the speed of love. (fingers, really, but i repeat myself) hence some moron thinking you can inject rice through a needle (or maybe he thinks needles are turkey basters, in which case i hope he uses incognito mode when searching for petit morts and risking actual morts)

the bigger issue of vaccine hesitancy is going to come into play in case there is a worst case scenario of some new supervariant ripping across the country. at that point, the hesitant/avoidant become targets* of both rage and potentially much more draconian legislation. so like patriot act 3 1/2 or whatever we're up to at this point. plus, ya know, dead bodies.

this goes triply if it impacts children in a different way than the thankfully not much impact at all of current variants.

* excepting black people because tuskeegee. which is both a real thing (in that people believe it, and there's enough supporting experiences to cause general medical hesitancy) and an excuse that would not be tolerated in any other population by the media, particularly with that many decades involved.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Shem »

Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
I know when I hear "marketplace of ideas," the first era I think of is the one that had literal blacklists of people who were prevented from expressing ideas. Or the ones before that where they just skipped the informality and made laws about it.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Warren »

Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:52
Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
I know when I hear "marketplace of ideas," the first era I think of is the one that had literal blacklists of people who were prevented from expressing ideas. Or the ones before that where they just skipped the informality and made laws about it.
Hmmm. Well that's not what the rest of mean by it.
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Jennifer
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Jennifer »

Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:46
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
Agree. I wouldn't even mind if it was just they and their spawn who contract the disease*. But a larger pool of susceptibles means more opportunity for the virus to produce variants that come back and infect those of us who get vaccinated against the original strains.
Even if Americans did accept vaccination in sufficient numbers to achieve herd immunity in this country, I'm ... not officially "worried," but a tad "concerned," about what's going on in India (and to a lesser extent Brazil), where covid has completely overwhelmed their medical and mortuary systems, not just for the Indians' sake but also because I worry the virus will get the chance to mutate into something different enough to render current vaccines useless.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:52
Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
I know when I hear "marketplace of ideas," the first era I think of is the one that had literal blacklists of people who were prevented from expressing ideas. Or the ones before that where they just skipped the informality and made laws about it.
Weird, it's always people on the left that keep telling us there's no such thing as a "free market", usually before explaining that "free speech" can't exist anyway.
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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

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Eric the .5b wrote: 05 May 2021, 15:32
Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:52
Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
Highway wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:38 It's abundantly clear that yelling (or clutching your pearls or clicking your tongue) at people showing vaccine hesitancy about how stupid or ignorant they are does not do anything except harden their opinion against getting the vaccines. It's really something that people should be backing off of in favor of more effective modes of encouragement.
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
I know when I hear "marketplace of ideas," the first era I think of is the one that had literal blacklists of people who were prevented from expressing ideas. Or the ones before that where they just skipped the informality and made laws about it.
Weird, it's always people on the left that keep telling us there's no such thing as a "free market", usually before explaining that "free speech" can't exist anyway.
I'm going to need some further clarification if I'm going to get your point here.
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Eric the .5b »

Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 15:51
Eric the .5b wrote: 05 May 2021, 15:32
Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:52
Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48
Hugh Akston wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:45
We live in a democracy, persuading reluctant people is not part of our culture where even the stupid get to vote.
FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
I know when I hear "marketplace of ideas," the first era I think of is the one that had literal blacklists of people who were prevented from expressing ideas. Or the ones before that where they just skipped the informality and made laws about it.
Weird, it's always people on the left that keep telling us there's no such thing as a "free market", usually before explaining that "free speech" can't exist anyway.
I'm going to need some further clarification if I'm going to get your point here.
It means there's only so seriously that complaint can be taken when used that far out of any sensible context. I don't buy into the hand-wringing here either, but trying to derail claims about the use of persuasion into the supposed hypocrisy of supporting free speech just comes across as bad faith.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Shem
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Re: Corona(virus)? ITS NOT EVEN BEER DAMMIT!!!

Post by Shem »

Eric the .5b wrote: 05 May 2021, 17:05
Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 15:51
Eric the .5b wrote: 05 May 2021, 15:32
Shem wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:52
Warren wrote: 05 May 2021, 12:16
Aresen wrote: 05 May 2021, 10:48

FIFY
No, the Big Ducky had it right.
We use to have an intellectual class that participated in the marketplace of ideas. What's left of that, has been driven to the shadows and corners.
I know when I hear "marketplace of ideas," the first era I think of is the one that had literal blacklists of people who were prevented from expressing ideas. Or the ones before that where they just skipped the informality and made laws about it.
Weird, it's always people on the left that keep telling us there's no such thing as a "free market", usually before explaining that "free speech" can't exist anyway.
I'm going to need some further clarification if I'm going to get your point here.
It means there's only so seriously that complaint can be taken when used that far out of any sensible context. I don't buy into the hand-wringing here either, but trying to derail claims about the use of persuasion into the supposed hypocrisy of supporting free speech just comes across as bad faith.
That's not the argument I was making. Warren made a comment about some supposed "good old days," when people had some kind of marketplace of ideas where everyone was heard and considered. But even then, the stuff people are worrying about here was still everywhere. It was just something polite people pretended not to see when it was exercised against Black people or communists or Mormons or whoever wasn't on the list of "people who are worthy of free speech" at any given time. If anything, in a broad sense things are better than they used to be. The mob uses tweets today. They used to use rope.
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