Orange is the new President

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Ellie
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie »

The stimulus bill strife makes me think I was right to scoff at the predictions about "Trump loses the election but retains his power as a kingmaker in the party." I don't think the GOP is going to care very much what he has to say once he's not in office.

That said, I am extremely surprised and baffled both that Trump is insisting on a bigger check (why now and not before the election? Why at all???) and that this is the issue the Republicans won't fall in line behind.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Pham Nuwen »

Ellie wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 05:51 The stimulus bill strife makes me think I was right to scoff at the predictions about "Trump loses the election but retains his power as a kingmaker in the party." I don't think the GOP is going to care very much what he has to say once he's not in office.

That said, I am extremely surprised and baffled both that Trump is insisting on a bigger check (why now and not before the election? Why at all???) and that this is the issue the Republicans won't fall in line behind.
It would enable some segment of the workforce to not return to minimum wage work. Think restaurants and such. Bad news for owners and investors of such work places.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston »

Now that a Blue president is coming to town, everyone on Team Red is fiscally conservative again.
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Warren
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:13 Now that a Blue president is coming to town, everyone on Team Red is fiscally conservative again.
Are they though? Are they even making fiscally conservative noises beyond "We're against whatever you're for"?
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Aresen
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Warren wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:21
Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:13 Now that a Blue president is coming to town, everyone on Team Red is fiscally conservative again.
Are they though? Are they even making fiscally conservative noises beyond "We're against whatever you're for"?
And just when was the GOP's fiscal conservatism anything more than lip service?
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Aresen wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:38
Warren wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:21
Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:13 Now that a Blue president is coming to town, everyone on Team Red is fiscally conservative again.
Are they though? Are they even making fiscally conservative noises beyond "We're against whatever you're for"?
And just when was the GOP's fiscal conservatism anything more than lip service?
Whenever the issue is federal social welfare programs.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 12:47
Aresen wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:38
Warren wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:21
Hugh Akston wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 10:13 Now that a Blue president is coming to town, everyone on Team Red is fiscally conservative again.
Are they though? Are they even making fiscally conservative noises beyond "We're against whatever you're for"?
And just when was the GOP's fiscal conservatism anything more than lip service?
Whenever the issue is federal social welfare programs.
Except farm welfare, Medicare, and Social Security.
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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Ellie wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 05:51 The stimulus bill strife makes me think I was right to scoff at the predictions about "Trump loses the election but retains his power as a kingmaker in the party." I don't think the GOP is going to care very much what he has to say once he's not in office.

That said, I am extremely surprised and baffled both that Trump is insisting on a bigger check (why now and not before the election? Why at all???)
I think Trump's motivation is simply, he's pissed off at the GOP (plus most of the rest of humanity) for not doing more to help him overthrow the presidential election results, so he's using the stimulus check as an excuse to veto the bill (read: punish everyone in congress who voted to pass it).

Did Trump even suggest raising the $600 to $2,000 before the current bill was even passed, or did he wait until afterward to raise the issue? I wasn't paying attention.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Jennifer wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 15:52
Ellie wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 05:51 The stimulus bill strife makes me think I was right to scoff at the predictions about "Trump loses the election but retains his power as a kingmaker in the party." I don't think the GOP is going to care very much what he has to say once he's not in office.

That said, I am extremely surprised and baffled both that Trump is insisting on a bigger check (why now and not before the election? Why at all???)
I think Trump's motivation is simply, he's pissed off at the GOP (plus most of the rest of humanity) for not doing more to help him overthrow the presidential election results, so he's using the stimulus check as an excuse to veto the bill (read: punish everyone in congress who voted to pass it).

Did Trump even suggest raising the $600 to $2,000 before the current bill was even passed, or did he wait until afterward to raise the issue? I wasn't paying attention.
He waited until it was all done up and waiting the final vote.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Trump Attacks FBI, DOJ, Supreme Court and GOP Senators in Boxing Day Twitter Tirade
President Donald Trump went on a Boxing Day Twitter rant, where he attacked the FBI, Justice Department, Supreme Court, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, and other Senate Republicans for various claims related to voter fraud—claiming that it cost him the election to President-elect Joe Biden.

In a Saturday morning tweet directed at the Supreme Court, the president called it "incompetent and weak" for its handlings of his claims that there was fraud in the November election. Trump's campaign has filed numerous lawsuits, alleging that it had evidence of widespread voter fraud in key swing states. As previously reported, almost all of the Trump campaign's lawsuits have been dismissed.

The president claimed to have "absolute PROOF" that widespread voter fraud occurred during the November election, but he said that the Supreme Court doesn't "want to see it."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b »

Well, we passed the supposed Christmas Eve coup people were talking up and which I wasn't much concerned about. Much.

My brother is all Trump 2020, but I just avoided that conversation. It doesn't take much to disinform the low-info voters.
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Ellie
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Ellie »

Pham Nuwen wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 09:56
Ellie wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 05:51 The stimulus bill strife makes me think I was right to scoff at the predictions about "Trump loses the election but retains his power as a kingmaker in the party." I don't think the GOP is going to care very much what he has to say once he's not in office.

That said, I am extremely surprised and baffled both that Trump is insisting on a bigger check (why now and not before the election? Why at all???) and that this is the issue the Republicans won't fall in line behind.
It would enable some segment of the workforce to not return to minimum wage work. Think restaurants and such. Bad news for owners and investors of such work places.
Are those places really struggling to find workers at the moment? I'd assume they're hurting because of reduced traffic or local shutdown orders. Also, why would Trump want to stick it to small business owners and investors?
Jennifer wrote:I think Trump's motivation is simply, he's pissed off at the GOP (plus most of the rest of humanity) for not doing more to help him overthrow the presidential election results, so he's using the stimulus check as an excuse to veto the bill (read: punish everyone in congress who voted to pass it).
That makes more sense, although it seems more high-level calculus than I'm used to out of Trump to be able to say, "I'll make my stand over this issue which makes me look like I care MORE about the average citizen, and my GOP enemies care LESS, but also a big enough deal for them that they won't just go along with what I'm demanding so I have to pass the bill anyway." I'd expect more like, "I'll veto this bill unless you amend it so it also calls for the guy who invented Twitter fact-checking to be put in prison."
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Orange is the new President

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My understanding is that they have reduced capacity but also a much reduced workforce. A workforce they would have to pay more to stay or come on board to work.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Ellie wrote: 27 Dec 2020, 12:57
Jennifer wrote:I think Trump's motivation is simply, he's pissed off at the GOP (plus most of the rest of humanity) for not doing more to help him overthrow the presidential election results, so he's using the stimulus check as an excuse to veto the bill (read: punish everyone in congress who voted to pass it).
That makes more sense, although it seems more high-level calculus than I'm used to out of Trump to be able to say, "I'll make my stand over this issue which makes me look like I care MORE about the average citizen, and my GOP enemies care LESS, but also a big enough deal for them that they won't just go along with what I'm demanding so I have to pass the bill anyway." I'd expect more like, "I'll veto this bill unless you amend it so it also calls for the guy who invented Twitter fact-checking to be put in prison."
I don't think Trump's thought process had remotely as many post-elementary vocabulary words as you mentioned here; it was more along the lines of "You didn't do what I want, so I won't do what you want either. So there!"
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Pham Nuwen wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 09:56
Ellie wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 05:51 The stimulus bill strife makes me think I was right to scoff at the predictions about "Trump loses the election but retains his power as a kingmaker in the party." I don't think the GOP is going to care very much what he has to say once he's not in office.

That said, I am extremely surprised and baffled both that Trump is insisting on a bigger check (why now and not before the election? Why at all???) and that this is the issue the Republicans won't fall in line behind.
It would enable some segment of the workforce to not return to minimum wage work. Think restaurants and such. Bad news for owners and investors of such work places.
Most states, not coming back when am employer who put you on leave called you would be refusing work, which would lose you your unemployment if they reported it. It's less anything that specific like that and more a general belief that poors shouldn't receive anything that would make their life easier. See Mike Pence's comments about how "[Democrats] want to make rich people poorer, and poor people more comfortable."
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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Ellie wrote: 27 Dec 2020, 12:57
That makes more sense, although it seems more high-level calculus than I'm used to out of Trump to be able to say, "I'll make my stand over this issue which makes me look like I care MORE about the average citizen, and my GOP enemies care LESS, but also a big enough deal for them that they won't just go along with what I'm demanding so I have to pass the bill anyway." I'd expect more like, "I'll veto this bill unless you amend it so it also calls for the guy who invented Twitter fact-checking to be put in prison."
This is about the Senate seats in Georgia. They're acknowledging Trump lost, so he's going scorched Earth to make them afraid of losing those seats.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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He signed the bill after his whining threats. Color me unsurprised.

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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

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But not before people on unemployment potentially lost a week of benefits. So there's that.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Shem wrote: 27 Dec 2020, 22:26 But not before people on unemployment potentially lost a week of benefits. So there's that.
I believe that falls under a corollary of Helmsley's Law: "Little people don't count."
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Truck you, Fump:

Trump Claims Covid Deaths Are ‘Exaggerated’ As U.S. Surpasses 350,000
As the U.S. hit its latest grim milestone early Sunday morning in the coronavirus pandemic—350,000 Americans dead—President Trump claimed the country’s high numbers of cases and deaths have been “exaggerated,” maligning the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s statistics.

In a tweet, Trump accused the CDC of using “ridiculous methods of determination compared to other countries, many of whom report, purposely, very inaccurate and low” coronavirus-related statistics.

Trump suggested that the U.S. Covid-19 death toll includes deaths that weren’t caused by the virus, providing no evidence for either claim.

The CDC’s Covid-19 statistics are based on the most recent numbers reported by states, territories and other jurisdictions, according to its website.

Furthermore, the CDC has projected that Covid-19’s true death toll in the U.S. is likely higher than what’s reported due to “either undiagnosed Covid-19 or from other causes related to the pandemic.”

U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams disparaged Trump’s claims in an interview with CNN’s “State of the Union,” saying: “From a public health perspective, I have no reason to doubt these numbers.”

“The deaths are real deaths,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, the country’s top infectious disease expert, told ABC News’ “This Week.” “Go to the hospitals. See what the health care workers are dealing with … That’s real. That’s not fake.”
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Re: Orange is the new President

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There's nothing new there. Trump and his maga minions have been insisting that this thing is really just the flu since the beginning. And when the numbers indicated something else, then they pretend the numbers are fake. Now, they're doing it the other way, pretending that a few scattered cases of anaphylaxis among people with histories of severe allergy and a rate of Bell's Palsy cases lower than would be expected in a random sample prove that the vaccine isn't safe. They're choosing to take their chances with a disease with about 1% mortality rate and an unknown (but higher) disability rate vs. a vaccine that has, so far, proven itself to be safer than average. And so, the pandemic will continue. But now, there's a solution-one that is actively opposed by those who insist that there was never really a problem to begin with.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Re: Orange is the new President

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If attempting to intimidate someone into changing vote totals violates state or federal law then it is necessary for the health of democracy that he be prosecuted. The strongest argument against prosecuting a president is that it will discourage presidents from relinquishing power. But it follows that attempting to illegally hold on to power should be grounds for punishment. We want them to fear power grabs more than they fear relinquishing power.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Yet STILL, the MAGA believers refuse to give up their belief that TRUMP is the victim here-- either that's a deepfake of Trump's voice, or the entire conversation was taken out of context. Or even wore -- yes it's him, yes he's doing what we think he's doing, no it doesn't matter because he's still the good guy and the lefties and Democrats must be stopped at all costs.
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Re: Orange is the new President

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Jennifer wrote: 03 Jan 2021, 17:40 Yet STILL, the MAGA believers refuse to give up their belief that TRUMP is the victim here-- either that's a deepfake of Trump's voice, or the entire conversation was taken out of context. Or even wore -- yes it's him, yes he's doing what we think he's doing, no it doesn't matter because he's still the good guy and the lefties and Democrats must be stopped at all costs.
I won't godwin this, but type Red Trump Derangement Syndrome is exactly what Eric Hoffer was talking about in The True Believer.
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