OFFS: The Forsakening

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

thoreau wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 13:42
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 13:19 Honestly, on reflection, if the net effect of such a law was that a department store simply stopped separating boys' and girls' clothing into two different store locations and stopped identifying clothing items as specifically for boys or girls, I don't see the big deal. That's not to say I think the state has or should have the power to legislate such a thing; to be clear, it shouldn't.
Well, the closer kids get to puberty, the more differentiated their shapes become. Yeah, some kids don't change until late, others early, but the point is that there's a very practical issue here, at least for many older kids. Ban the gender label and the marketers will label the jeans for female figures with pink letters and "girly" fonts.
Of course. Well before that, though, I expect most boys are taught how to urinate standing up once they're tall enough to do so; hence, boys' underwear and pants have a fly. Moreover, since it's parents who do the shopping for children's clothing, they're going to decide how 'gender conforming' those clothes are. Clothing manufacturers aren't going to stop making underwear with and without a fly, they're not going to stop making both pants and skirts, etc. and then, as you say, puberty forces the issue at least to some extent.

I confess, btw, that as a young boy I was very confused about, um, the biological differences between boys and girls because all boys pants had a fly front but girls' skirts had zippers on the side or on the back, etc.
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Aresen
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 13:19 Honestly, on reflection, if the net effect of such a law was that a department store simply stopped separating boys' and girls' clothing into two different store locations and stopped identifying clothing items as specifically for boys or girls, I don't see the big deal. That's not to say I think the state has or should have the power to legislate such a thing; to be clear, it shouldn't.
I would think that such a law would fail on first amendment grounds.
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Jennifer
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer »

Aresen wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 17:01
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 13:19 Honestly, on reflection, if the net effect of such a law was that a department store simply stopped separating boys' and girls' clothing into two different store locations and stopped identifying clothing items as specifically for boys or girls, I don't see the big deal. That's not to say I think the state has or should have the power to legislate such a thing; to be clear, it shouldn't.
I would think that such a law would fail on first amendment grounds.
Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if such a law would fail on first amendment grounds. There are certainly some instances in which the government is allowed to, for lack of a better term, "compel speech" among certain types of businesses or manufacturers -- such as, requiring food producers/sellers to put nutrition information on their labels.

I don't know what first amendment exemption applies to things like that, though whatever it is, I hope it wouldn't stretch so far as to allow a law like this to pass.(Insert disclaimer about how I think it would be a good idea, but don't think it should be enforced by law.)
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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Jennifer wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 17:24 I don't know what first amendment exemption applies to things like that, though whatever it is, I hope it wouldn't stretch so far as to allow a law like this to pass.(Insert disclaimer about how I think it would be a good idea, but don't think it should be enforced by law.)
‽‽‽‽‽‽‽

Huh? Why would you consider such a law to be a 'good idea'?
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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Aresen wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 18:07
Jennifer wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 17:24 I don't know what first amendment exemption applies to things like that, though whatever it is, I hope it wouldn't stretch so far as to allow a law like this to pass.(Insert disclaimer about how I think it would be a good idea, but don't think it should be enforced by law.)
‽‽‽‽‽‽‽

Huh? Why would you consider such a law to be a 'good idea'?
No, I don't think a law would be a good idea; merely that it would be a good idea for all non-underwear clothing for prepubescents be sold together rather than segregated by sex.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Aresen wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 17:01
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 13:19 Honestly, on reflection, if the net effect of such a law was that a department store simply stopped separating boys' and girls' clothing into two different store locations and stopped identifying clothing items as specifically for boys or girls, I don't see the big deal. That's not to say I think the state has or should have the power to legislate such a thing; to be clear, it shouldn't.
I would think that such a law would fail on first amendment grounds.
If I had to bet, I'd agree; but not everything that is unconstitutional is bad and vice versa.
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Shem
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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thoreau wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 13:42 Also, I largely sympathize with the goal. I like Meghan Daum's observation on how undifferentiated most kids' clothing was in the 1970's and how much less neurotic Gen X was/is about gender compared with millennials. I would love to see a future where more kids wore simpler, less adorned clothes for many situations.
I still think the differentiation arises as a response to the loss of legal and social sanction for transgressing gender roles. You don't need differentiated clothing if "female" can be defined and identified by "ability to get a credit card without a man cosigning." This also explains why places like Sweden have more differentiated gender in job selection than places like Pakistan.

Also, I think you're making the mistake of comparing people at two different stages (along with a heap of reductionism) when it comes to how easygoing Gex Xers are compared to who came after. It wasn't Millennials who inspired "Politically Correct Fairy Tales."
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thoreau
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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Shem wrote: 27 Feb 2021, 20:49I still think the differentiation arises as a response to the loss of legal and social sanction for transgressing gender roles. You don't need differentiated clothing if "female" can be defined and identified by "ability to get a credit card without a man cosigning." This also explains why places like Sweden have more differentiated gender in job selection than places like Pakistan.
I think that's surely part of it with the job selection. But I'm not convinced that a need to differentiate is the only cause of this widely-observed paradox about gendered career paths in ostensibly less sexist societies. Societies that do a better job of protecting women's rights generally also have two other factors, and I wonder if these also have something to do with it:
1) Generally more developed and diversified economies and more elaborate social services, with more developed health, education, and media sectors, i.e. more opportunities to support oneself in "less masculine" endeavors.
2) Weaker extended family structures, so fewer people living with parents who will say "How much money will you make doing that?" and less support for the hardships of certain educational and career paths.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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A Gen X-er being less neurotic about gender:

Image

(In response to a late Boomer flying the trans flag.)

This is the generation that's had a cultural undercurrent of doubt as to whether we measure up to "real" gender standards (that is, the standards we inherited). Angst about working mothers (and almost always only the mothers) failing at parenting, Fight Club-esque ideas about failing at or bring denied the way to "manhood", etc. This is why people clutch at traditionalism and conservatism, even in its most batshit forms, as a balm for doubts and anxiety. That's why fighting gay marriage was and now fighting trans rights is such an easy, hot-button issue for my generation's conservatives--threatening those comforting, traditional sex/gender strictures brings back the doubts and anxiety.

Reductive, but I think accurate for a lot of people.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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COMPROMISE: We still have the holiday, but it's renamed "Loser Memorial Day."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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Shem wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 11:11
COMPROMISE: We still have the holiday, but it's renamed "Loser Memorial Day."
Everyone Gets a Trophy Day
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b »

Shem wrote: 27 Apr 2021, 11:11
COMPROMISE: We still have the holiday, but it's renamed "Loser Memorial Day."
And if you have a parade, a McClellan cosplayer has to lead it in full uniform under a banner saying "Greatest Confederate General".
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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And the participants receive their participation trophies alongside a little league team that placed second.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau »

The Jeopardy contestant guy being called out for an alleged white power symbol. WTF.?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/29/ ... er-symbol/
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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thoreau wrote: 01 May 2021, 14:15 The Jeopardy contestant guy being called out for an alleged white power symbol. WTF.?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/29/ ... er-symbol/
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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I mean that's literally how you sign the number 3 in American Sign Language. Can we at least get the "that's racist!" and "that's ableist!" woke-as-identity people to fight each other over this one and hopefully give the rest of us some peace?
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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thoreau wrote: 01 May 2021, 14:15 The Jeopardy contestant guy being called out for an alleged white power symbol. WTF.?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/29/ ... er-symbol/
Holy shit. His critics aren't backing down. It's lefty Q.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/16/busi ... iracy.html
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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The lefty Q take is entirely apt and I will golf clap, steal, and cry in my wine at our fate.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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JasonL wrote: Yesterday, 10:16 The lefty Q take is entirely apt and I will golf clap, steal, and cry in my wine at our fate.
I picture a bunch of lefties in Viking helmets storming the studio lot in Culver City to try to do citizen's arrests of the Sekrit Nazis on the Jeopardy production team.


"Two security guards hospitalized after being run over by Priuses. Authorities had a bomb squad robot deactivate a pipe bomb hidden in a Whole Foods cloth shopping bag. The improvised device was made with hemp seed oil as a combustible element and was packed with recycled metal shards."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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thoreau wrote: Yesterday, 10:52
JasonL wrote: Yesterday, 10:16 The lefty Q take is entirely apt and I will golf clap, steal, and cry in my wine at our fate.
I picture a bunch of lefties in Viking helmets storming the studio lot in Culver City to try to do citizen's arrests of the Sekrit Nazis on the Jeopardy production team.


"Two security guards hospitalized after being run over by Priuses. Authorities had a bomb squad robot deactivate a pipe bomb hidden in a Whole Foods cloth shopping bag. The improvised device was made with hemp seed oil as a combustible element and was packed with recycled metal shards."
If you look at the Jeopardy stage overhead it forms, I mean roughly forms, the shape of an ancient rune that matches a doodle in Hitler's sketchbook. Tell me that's a coincidence.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau »

People don't just die of cancer suddenly. Trebek knew too much so the Sony Deep State did him in.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau »

Jeopardy is filmed on the Sony lot. Sony is a Japanese company. And which side was Japan on in WWII?

CHECKMATE!!!!!

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer »

I read somewhere that the gesture he made was similar if not identical to the ASL word for three. It would be nice if someone could weaponize that against the man's critics: "What, are you saying all deaf people are racist? Or only the ones who ever need to count to three? Quit being so ableist."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

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Ben Smith was remarkably fair to a group of people who are demonstrating significant emotional distress because they've fully immersed themselves in the wizarding world of white supremacy.
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