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Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 00:00
by Aresen
Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Wouldn't survive a First Amendment challenge. (AFAICT, the sponsor Danny Carroll has no legal education) However, I am sure Kentucky cops would use it as another pretext for harrassing people until it actually got struck down.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 00:50
by lunchstealer
Aresen wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 00:00 Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Wouldn't survive a First Amendment challenge. (AFAICT, the sponsor Danny Carroll has no legal education) However, I am sure Kentucky cops would use it as another pretext for harrassing people until it actually got struck down.
And after. If they can point to a law that's technically still on the books but unenforceable, well they can't be aware of the judicial status of every single law.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 11:37
by Hugh Akston
In a lot of places this would just be a virtue signalling bill for Reds to show what proud badgelickers they are. But Kentucky is a place where this could definitely pass into law. And even when SCOTUS does eventually strike it down, it will be after years of trial and appeal. So the rap will be beaten, but not the ride.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 11:52
by thoreau
Hugh Akston wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 11:37 So the rap will be beaten, but not the ride.
Assuming they survive.

If the person lobbing insults subsequently made a furtive gesture that was not apparent from the angle of the cop's body cam, well, somebody is going on paid leave.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 12:00
by D.A. Ridgely
thoreau wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 11:52
Hugh Akston wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 11:37 So the rap will be beaten, but not the ride.
Assuming they survive.

If the person lobbing insults subsequently made a furtive gesture that was not apparent from the angle of the cop's body cam, well, somebody is going on paid leave.
The ACLU will contrive a test case almost immediately. Also, unless they're elected, I'd imagine Kentucky's own supreme court would strike down the law.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 12:01
by Aresen
Hugh Akston wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 11:37 In a lot of places this would just be a virtue signalling bill for Reds to show what proud badgelickers they are.
Agree.
But Kentucky is a place where this could definitely pass into law. And even when SCOTUS does eventually strike it down, it will be after years of trial and appeal. So the rap will be beaten, but not the ride.
Don't know if it would have to go to SCOTUS - it would probably get struck at a much lower level. Assuming it was struck down at the court of appeal, I don't think they'd push it higher (and if they did, SCOTUS would probably deny cert.) Instead, they'd just complain about 'librul judges'.

I think you need an amendment that the sponsor of any bill struck down as unconstitutional is immediately dismissed from office and forbidden to hold elected office again (at least for the equivalent of their present term and the following term.) I'd also insert a clause saying that the offender's office could not be filled until the normal expiry of his term so people might think twice about electing a grandstanding jackass.

ETA: I see D.A. Ridgely has already commented. I defer to his knowledge.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 12:42
by thoreau
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 12:00 The ACLU will contrive a test case almost immediately.
Until it turns out that the cop suffered emotional distress, at which point young staffers will stage a walkout and demand a safe space for the cop.

(OK, not really, but still. The ACLU is not what it once was.)

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 12:52
by D.A. Ridgely
thoreau wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 12:42
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 12:00 The ACLU will contrive a test case almost immediately.
Until it turns out that the cop suffered emotional distress, at which point young staffers will stage a walkout and demand a safe space for the cop.

(OK, not really, but still. The ACLU is not what it once was.)
It's still what it once was when it comes to southern cops.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 07 Mar 2021, 12:54
by thoreau
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 12:52
thoreau wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 12:42
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 07 Mar 2021, 12:00 The ACLU will contrive a test case almost immediately.
Until it turns out that the cop suffered emotional distress, at which point young staffers will stage a walkout and demand a safe space for the cop.

(OK, not really, but still. The ACLU is not what it once was.)
It's still what it once was when it comes to southern cops.
True. Probably even more than it once was, on that issue. Thank God.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 09 Mar 2021, 14:11
by lunchstealer
I think a bigger problem with this law is that even after it is struck down, cops will be quietly and unofficially trained to arrest people on it because sure the charges will be dismissed but if anyone comes at them well there's a law on the books and we can't be expected to know every single nuance of every court case about every law and courts will find a way to give them qualified immunity.

EDIT uh apparently I said this exact thing in fewer sentences up thread. I'm plagiarizing myself now.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 09 Mar 2021, 14:19
by thoreau
lunchstealer wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 14:11 I think a bigger problem with this law is that even after it is struck down, cops will be quietly and unofficially trained to arrest people on it because sure the charges will be dismissed but if anyone comes at them well there's a law on the books and we can't be expected to know every single nuance of every court case about every law and courts will find a way to give them qualified immunity.

EDIT uh apparently I said this exact thing in fewer sentences up thread. I'm plagiarizing myself now.
I wonder if cops have tried this in states that legalized pot. "How were we supposed to know that they freed the weed? He looks like a stoner so we arrested him!"

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 09 Mar 2021, 14:25
by Kolohe
It's basically what just happened to Springsteen wrt to alcohol. He was well below the legal limit, but looked drunk in the eyes of the popo.

Re: Kentucky Bill Would Make Insulting a Cop a Crime

Posted: 09 Mar 2021, 15:55
by lunchstealer
thoreau wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 14:19
lunchstealer wrote: 09 Mar 2021, 14:11 I think a bigger problem with this law is that even after it is struck down, cops will be quietly and unofficially trained to arrest people on it because sure the charges will be dismissed but if anyone comes at them well there's a law on the books and we can't be expected to know every single nuance of every court case about every law and courts will find a way to give them qualified immunity.

EDIT uh apparently I said this exact thing in fewer sentences up thread. I'm plagiarizing myself now.
I wonder if cops have tried this in states that legalized pot. "How were we supposed to know that they freed the weed? He looks like a stoner so we arrested him!"
I haven't heard much about it but I can only assume that they use public use or unauthorized sales, but I haven't heard much about it, and legalization was such a big deal in CO that nobody could plead ignorance. Plus it was a law, not a court decision invalidating a law.