Dancing With the Dems

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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by JasonL »

My favorite part of this moment is the normalization of conspiracy enables people drop batshit crazy shorthand claims in a way that similarly fucking crazy people can nod at immediately.

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Hugh Akston »

JasonL wrote:
07 Dec 2019, 15:19
My favorite part of this moment is the normalization of conspiracy enables people drop batshit crazy shorthand claims in a way that similarly fucking crazy people can nod at immediately.
EDKH
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Warren
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Warren »

Hugh Akston wrote:
07 Dec 2019, 15:27
JasonL wrote:
07 Dec 2019, 15:19
My favorite part of this moment is the normalization of conspiracy enables people drop batshit crazy shorthand claims in a way that similarly fucking crazy people can nod at immediately.
EDKH
*nods*
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Shem
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Jadagul wrote:
07 Dec 2019, 14:54
Masked Grylliader wrote:
07 Dec 2019, 14:09
@liz_franczak

biden is a walking corpse who will gut social security, Pete is the most obvious CIA asset in history, Warren lies about almost everything incl. but not limited to pretending to be another race (we still don’t talk about this enough)

lol literally why don’t you support Sanders
President Butt is a CIA asset? Is this a joke I'm not getting or what?

-Ellie
I'm gonna mess up some details, but I think the deal is that he was a consultant for McKinsey, and we don't know what projects he worked on, so there's a bunch of speculation about whether he did projects consulting for the government in fucking with third-world countries?
Think in this case it's more related to his military career (he was in Army Intelligence in Afghanistan).
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Mo
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Mo »

The McKinsey thing is amusing because I know a bunch of people that work(ed) there and I’m also working with them on a project. The thing I don’t get is that everyone knows they borrow your watch and tell you what time it is, even senior management. And the value that they give is “best practices” (I.e. subtly laundered insider info of what your competitors are doing). What I don’t get is why, despite this, the people from there slide into super senior roles when they leave their firms.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Personally I love all the Bernie Bro hate for Warren as a dirty neo-liberal, especially when they turn around and say "Look at the combined support for Warren and Sanders vs Biden—we're much more powerful than the moderates!"
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Warren
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 03:11
Personally I love all the Bernie Bro hate for Warren as a dirty neo-liberal, especially when they turn around and say "Look at the combined support for Warren and Sanders vs Biden—we're much more powerful than the moderates!"
The narcissism of small differences.
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dhex
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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I am left with the pessimistic feeling that the dance of dumb plus impeachment hearings means four more chud seasons.
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Aresen
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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dhex wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 17:14
I am left with the pessimistic feeling that the dance of dumb plus impeachment hearings means four more chud seasons.
You know things are bad when dhex starts using punctuation and capitals.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Aresen wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 17:24
dhex wrote:
08 Dec 2019, 17:14
I am left with the pessimistic feeling that the dance of dumb plus impeachment hearings means four more chud seasons.
You know things are bad when dhex starts using punctuation and capitals.
And English!

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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I've gotta say I don't really get the hate for the Butt, who seems like the least offensive and most broadly electable of the remaining Team Blue stable. But this article really makes it sound like a case of the left cutting off its nose to spite its face.
"I thought it was condescending," said Dylan Bremner, 22, one of the students who protested Buttigieg over his plan to address climate change. "When he said 'That's mean,' I think it's pretty f***ing mean that you're not going to save us."
Uhl cited former President Barack Obama as an example of a candidate who represented generational change and who he characterized as a crusader for systemic change to the political system.

But presented with the argument that some of Obama's policies would be considered more moderate than Buttigieg's in today's Democratic Party, Uhl paused.

"The thing is Obama was willing to speak to systemic issues and a lot of younger people are becoming increasingly disillusioned and cynical because time and time again candidates would pay lip service and not do it," he said. "Pete's not even trying."
Also partisans are fucking morons.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Yeah, I read that article and thought "Four More Years." Honestly, if we could resurrect Mussolini and Trotsky and run them respectively as the Republican and Democratic candidates, activists from both parties would go "Nah, too moderate."

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Hugh Akston
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Hugh Akston »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
16 Dec 2019, 17:07
Yeah, I read that article and thought "Four More Years." Honestly, if we could resurrect Mussolini and Trotsky and run them respectively as the Republican and Democratic candidates, activists from both parties would go "Nah, too moderate."
That was my reaction as well. Hedge funders' heads on pikes and ponies for all may be your policy goals, but you actually have to get someone elected first. With the way they are acting now, the person the left is going to get elected is Donald Trump.
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Warren
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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D.A. Ridgely wrote:
16 Dec 2019, 17:07
Yeah, I read that article and thought "Four More Years." Honestly, if we could resurrect Mussolini and Trotsky and run them respectively as the Republican and Democratic candidates, activists from both parties would go "Nah, too moderate."
*DING*
That one rings the bell. It's a keeper.
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Shem
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Hugh Akston wrote:
16 Dec 2019, 17:04
I've gotta say I don't really get the hate for the Butt, who seems like the least offensive and most broadly electable of the remaining Team Blue stable. But this article really makes it sound like a case of the left cutting off its nose to spite its face.
"I thought it was condescending," said Dylan Bremner, 22, one of the students who protested Buttigieg over his plan to address climate change. "When he said 'That's mean,' I think it's pretty f***ing mean that you're not going to save us."
Uhl cited former President Barack Obama as an example of a candidate who represented generational change and who he characterized as a crusader for systemic change to the political system.

But presented with the argument that some of Obama's policies would be considered more moderate than Buttigieg's in today's Democratic Party, Uhl paused.

"The thing is Obama was willing to speak to systemic issues and a lot of younger people are becoming increasingly disillusioned and cynical because time and time again candidates would pay lip service and not do it," he said. "Pete's not even trying."
Also partisans are fucking morons.
A big part of it is his constant "I'm a far-eyed Leader interested in real Americans, not like these policy wonks who want to debate liberal ideas." Most of it, really. Implicit in it is both "you are not a real American, therefore I don't actually have to worry about your opinions," along with "you are not even worth pandering to, so I won't bother with it. Until the time comes to open your wallet and start volunteering, at which time your failure to care will be treated as obsession with ideological purity rather than an assessment of how little I care about what matters to you."

The activist wing of the Democratic party has watched the GOP spend decades at least paying lip service to their desires, even as the Dem party apparatus has treated their grassroots like a leper colony they need to keep away from the spotlight. That behavior is why Clinton fell flat with them, and why trying to have the debate about electability now was a really stupid thing to do. You throw the faithful the red meat now, when only freaks and otakus are paying attention, then moderate once the primaries start.
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Shem
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Also, the "least offensive and most broadly electable" title goes to Cory Booker, easily.
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Hugh Akston wrote:
16 Dec 2019, 17:04
I've gotta say I don't really get the hate for the Butt, who seems like the least offensive and most broadly electable of the remaining Team Blue stable. But this article really makes it sound like a case of the left cutting off its nose to spite its face.
"I thought it was condescending," said Dylan Bremner, 22, one of the students who protested Buttigieg over his plan to address climate change. "When he said 'That's mean,' I think it's pretty f***ing mean that you're not going to save us."
Uhl cited former President Barack Obama as an example of a candidate who represented generational change and who he characterized as a crusader for systemic change to the political system.

But presented with the argument that some of Obama's policies would be considered more moderate than Buttigieg's in today's Democratic Party, Uhl paused.

"The thing is Obama was willing to speak to systemic issues and a lot of younger people are becoming increasingly disillusioned and cynical because time and time again candidates would pay lip service and not do it," he said. "Pete's not even trying."
Also partisans are fucking morons.
Damn it I was going to post this with the link titled, "Young Democrats aren't feeling the Butt."

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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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The world was a better place when the activist wing was ignored.

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Shem
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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JasonL wrote:
17 Dec 2019, 00:13
The world was a better place when the activist wing was ignored.
That's how you wind up with an Overton Window so far to the right that Congress has serious policy discussions about whether locking children in cages is the right thing to do. In other words, the world you're wishing for is what birthed the stuff you hate today.
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thoreau
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by thoreau »

Shem wrote:
JasonL wrote:
17 Dec 2019, 00:13
The world was a better place when the activist wing was ignored.
That's how you wind up with an Overton Window so far to the right that Congress has serious policy discussions about whether locking children in cages is the right thing to do. In other words, the world you're wishing for is what birthed the stuff you hate today.
+1
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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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In a sense. Alt right makes the same case - this is what you get when you don't give dumb insular white dudes a place at the cultural table.

As with the alt right, I can't help but notice that the reason they had no place at the table is they say a lot of dumb things. I'm left with this sense that what is missing is not engagement in the sense we pretend those dumb things are not dumb, but rather we got lax in shaming them into silence.

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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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The neoliberal consensus was simply better. Maybe the US version could do with some stretching toward the left, sure, but something like government healthcare is clearly within bounds of the global neoliberal consensus and with ACA we are heading that way. This rage at Butt or Obama for not making the kiddie table the real table is goofy.

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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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Lefty activist opinions are good and necessary

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Shem
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

Post by Shem »

JasonL wrote:
17 Dec 2019, 10:11
In a sense. Alt right makes the same case - this is what you get when you don't give dumb insular white dudes a place at the cultural table.

As with the alt right, I can't help but notice that the reason they had no place at the table is they say a lot of dumb things. I'm left with this sense that what is missing is not engagement in the sense we pretend those dumb things are not dumb, but rather we got lax in shaming them into silence.
You're talking as if both parties treat their activist base the same way. They don't. The GOP has been feeding their particular alt-right monster under the table for at least three decades now. That's what Fox News is for. The alt-right isn't demanding a seat at the table because they're being ignored; they're demanding it because one of the coalitions is now built on their ideology. The consensus you miss was built on letting the GOP harness those votes without looking too closely at the implications of the ideology they were using to do it. Or considering what would happen when they realized it was all fake. And at this point, the damage is done.
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JasonL
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Re: Dancing With the Dems

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It’s weird how similarly the aggrieved describe their positions though. I think the levels of dismissal are quite similar. Left activists are dismissed as childish and unrealistic by historically mainstream DNC types - the language of the conventions hasn’t historically made them feel like they were part of the coalition. They are looking for a win by One Of Us.

Alt right people were dismissed as a conspiracy minded fringe by the neoliberals and neoconservatives and economic conservatives. The Douthats and the George Wills and the despicable globalists. They developed platforms with AM talk radio then Fox then ultimately became a coalition when their guy won.

What went wrong is the stupidest people won on the right and now the stupidest people on the left want to get them some of that. I don’t think they have the same emergent organizational weight - talk radio created its own thing.

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