OFFS: The Forsakening

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JD
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by JD » 08 May 2019, 10:19

Jennifer wrote:
07 May 2019, 19:18
Another member of the city council says he shares the mayor's views about race because "“I’m a Christian and my Christian beliefs are you don’t do interracial marriage. That’s the way I was brought up and that’s the way I believe,” he said. “I have black friends, I hired black people. But when it comes to all this stuff you see on TV, when you see blacks and whites together, it makes my blood boil because that’s just not the way a Christian is supposed to live”
I wonder if any of these "Christian" fucksticks have ever read Galatians 3:28.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by dhex » 08 May 2019, 12:15

Well that's one way to get national media attention.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer » 08 May 2019, 14:53

JD wrote:
08 May 2019, 10:19
Jennifer wrote:
07 May 2019, 19:18
Another member of the city council says he shares the mayor's views about race because "“I’m a Christian and my Christian beliefs are you don’t do interracial marriage. That’s the way I was brought up and that’s the way I believe,” he said. “I have black friends, I hired black people. But when it comes to all this stuff you see on TV, when you see blacks and whites together, it makes my blood boil because that’s just not the way a Christian is supposed to live”
I wonder if any of these "Christian" fucksticks have ever read Galatians 3:28.
Irrelevant blasphemy -- it says in Jesus there is no male or female, no slave or free ... but doesn't say a damned thing about black or white! Checkmate, liberal!
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer » 08 May 2019, 17:50

Elsewhere in my lovely new adopted home state:
A Haralson County corrections officer accused of being a white supremacist has been suspended with pay pending an investigation.

The investigation of jailer Trent East, a member of a pagan group called Ravensblood Kindred, reverses an earlier determination by Haralson County Sheriff Eddie Mixon that East didn’t present a danger....
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Kwix » 09 May 2019, 19:47

Aresen wrote:
07 May 2019, 20:01
Jennifer wrote:
07 May 2019, 19:18
The mayor of a mostly-white Georgia town about 50 miles from Atlanta allegedly withdrew a candidate from consideration for a city administrator job "because he is black, and the city isn’t ready for this" (exact quote).

Another member of the city council says he shares the mayor's views about race because "“I’m a Christian and my Christian beliefs are you don’t do interracial marriage. That’s the way I was brought up and that’s the way I believe,” he said. “I have black friends, I hired black people. But when it comes to all this stuff you see on TV, when you see blacks and whites together, it makes my blood boil because that’s just not the way a Christian is supposed to live” (another exact quote).

From May 2019, not a reprint story from 1962 or something.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--po ... 8CzpngLjP/
I can't even...
It's the rural south. At least the council member isn't a Shriner.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer » 10 May 2019, 18:26

This state is downright schizophrenic. I live not merely in suburban Atlanta, but in a quote-unquote "majority minority" neighborhood, so whatever other complaints one might make about my immediate vicinity, at least you do NOT see Confederate or swastika flags, or MAGA hats or 14/88 shit around here -- but drive 20 or so miles away and things are radically different. I had an acquaintance who lived in the city of Snellville -- definitely a much "better neighborhood" than mine, as measured by crime stats, property values or any other metric, yet the man living directly across the street from her, in a neighborhood of nice middle-class single-family homes, had a Confederate battle AND a swastika flag on display in his yard. (And this was AFTER the Nazi rally in Charlottesville, too.)
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Pham Nuwen » 10 May 2019, 19:04

Jennifer wrote:
10 May 2019, 18:26
This state is downright schizophrenic. I live not merely in suburban Atlanta, but in a quote-unquote "majority minority" neighborhood, so whatever other complaints one might make about my immediate vicinity, at least you do NOT see Confederate or swastika flags, or MAGA hats or 14/88 shit around here -- but drive 20 or so miles away and things are radically different. I had an acquaintance who lived in the city of Snellville -- definitely a much "better neighborhood" than mine, as measured by crime stats, property values or any other metric, yet the man living directly across the street from her, in a neighborhood of nice middle-class single-family homes, had a Confederate battle AND a swastika flag on display in his yard. (And this was AFTER the Nazi rally in Charlottesville, too.)
I was told their are very fine people on both sides of the issue, Jen.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Mo » 17 May 2019, 17:42

The most baffling thing about the lawsuit is the amount at question. Like it seems like there’s at least one zero missing from this.

https://news.yahoo.com/woman-sues-hospi ... 27228.html
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 17 May 2019, 17:48

Mo wrote:
17 May 2019, 17:42
The most baffling thing about the lawsuit is the amount at question. Like it seems like there’s at least one zero missing from this.

https://news.yahoo.com/woman-sues-hospi ... 27228.html
I'd go for two missing zeros. At $75k, the hospital's lawyer would be telling them to "Write the check now and get it in her hands yesterday."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Mo » 17 May 2019, 18:11

I said at least. $75K is a fucking steal.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau » 27 May 2019, 19:56

This op-ed in Scientific American claims that if oil companies hire more women they will naturally be more innovative and forward-thinking and solve climate change.


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... redirect=1


Even if we grant every supposition about diversity and innovation (we shouldn't: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?clus ... 5&as_vis=1 ), I think a diverse and innovative team working within the incentive structures of an oil company would find more profitable ways to extract and sell oil, not ways to not sell oil.


The diversity kool-aid is amazing. You can claim that any and all great things will happen if you just take what you are doing and add diversity. Because women and minorities are so different from white and Asian men that they will completely modify the entire incentive structure rather than competing within it.

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by JD » 29 May 2019, 14:11

thoreau wrote:
27 May 2019, 19:56
The diversity kool-aid is amazing. You can claim that any and all great things will happen if you just take what you are doing and add diversity. Because women and minorities are so different from white and Asian men that they will completely modify the entire incentive structure rather than competing within it.
Years ago, I remember seeing an article that claimed (seriously, as far as I could tell) that HTTP would be very different (and, apparently, better) if women had designed it. Now, the design of HTTP was not handed down to Moses on the Mount - there are certainly different ways you could have done some things - but ultimately if you're trying to solve the same problem with the same tools, it seems likely that you're going to come up with a similar solution, and claiming otherwise would be the claim in need of some serious supporting evidence.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau » 29 May 2019, 14:16

JD wrote:
29 May 2019, 14:11
thoreau wrote:
27 May 2019, 19:56
The diversity kool-aid is amazing. You can claim that any and all great things will happen if you just take what you are doing and add diversity. Because women and minorities are so different from white and Asian men that they will completely modify the entire incentive structure rather than competing within it.
Years ago, I remember seeing an article that claimed (seriously, as far as I could tell) that HTTP would be very different (and, apparently, better) if women had designed it. Now, the design of HTTP was not handed down to Moses on the Mount - there are certainly different ways you could have done some things - but ultimately if you're trying to solve the same problem with the same tools, it seems likely that you're going to come up with a similar solution, and claiming otherwise would be the claim in need of some serious supporting evidence.
It's certainly possible that a different team would have done things differently, with some advantages and disadvantages, and we can debate whether the advantages of a different approach would have outweighed the disadvantages. It's even possible that some of the proponents of a different approach back then were women.

Arguing that the advantages of a different approach are in some way linked to the fact of them being women, however, seems like a dubious claim. And if we were to go there, would the disadvantages of that approach also be linked to the fact of them being women? If we had to conclude that the advantages are tied to their nature as women, and hence that there are some engineering tasks that women are (on average) better at, would we have to conclude that in situations where those disadvantages matter more than the advantages women are (on average) not as good at engineering? Maybe women need to focus on protocols for certain situations and men need to focus on protocols for other situations?

I don't believe any of those arguments, but if we accepted their premises those would be logical conclusions.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer » 29 May 2019, 16:22

Cops strip-searched a four-year-old after his mother let him wait in the car while she went inside a store just long enough to buy a muffin.
A mom who let her six children wait ten minutes in the car while she ran in to get them muffins at a local Kentucky cafe is the focus of this oped I co-authored in The Washington Post.

Perhaps you can guess what happened next to the mom, Holly Curry. In fact, I'll bet you can. Though it was 67 degrees and partly cloudy, and though it is statistically safer to let kids wait in the car than drag them across a parking lot—the heart-wrenching stories of kids who die in cars almost always involve children forgotten there for hours, not simply waiting out an errand—Curry found herself in trouble with the police:
When she came out less than 10 minutes later, two officers rebuked Curry for leaving her kids in the car. They told her she wasn't being arrested, just "detained." She started to cry and asked permission to call her husband, Josiah, but that request was denied. No one asked to see the kids, still sitting in the car.

The officers told Curry that while they were not charging her with any crime, they were going to file a "JC3 form" — a hotline-type alert to the Kentucky child protection system.
The next day a child protective services investigator showed up, eventually with a sheriff's deputy. All this is laid out in a lawsuit the Currys are now pursuing.

The two authorities insisted on entering Holly's home, though they had no warrant, warning her that if she stood her constitutional ground and forbid them entry, they would return and take her kids, the lawsuit alleges. Curry let them in.

Once inside, the woman from CPS:
…questioned Curry about her home life. Curry answered fully, the lawsuit said, worried that any refusal would add to her peril. The investigator insisted on taking the youngest child from Curry's lap and, without permission, began to undress her. In the presence of the male deputy, the investigator proceeded to undress each child, male and female, down to the genitals (removing the diapers of the two youngest). Curry tried to object, but she knew she was powerless to stop the investigator from doing full-body inspections.

The last to be undressed was her 4-year-old son, taught by his pediatrician that he should never let a stranger take his clothes off without his mom's okay. But when the boy tried to make eye contact with Curry, the investigator stood directly in his line of sight, leaving him helpless. Then the investigator pointed to the deputy and said, "Show that cop your muscles!" The little boy removed his shirt and flexed his biceps as ordered. The investigator and deputy began laughing while the investigator started to pull down his pants. When the little boy finally was able to look back at his mother, she was holding back tears. The little boy's face registered shame and fear.
About two weeks later, Holly was found not guilty of child neglect. But why did a muffin stop end up with a strip search at all? How dare the authorities not only second-guess a mom's very safe decision, but take their investigation so far beyond the bounds of common sense—and decency? That's what motivated the Currys to file their federal civil rights lawsuit that challenges the entry into their home under coercion, the seizure of the children inside the home, and the strip-searches.

Local Kentucky lawyers and the national Home School Legal Defense Association are counsel in the case.

If they win, it will reinforce what should be a given: Parents deserve the right to make seat-of-the-pants decisions that do not put their kids in any real, obvious and statistically likely danger. Waiting 10 minutes for muffins falls into that no-real-danger category.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by JD » 29 May 2019, 16:38

Fuuuck. That is just some nightmarish stuff. And I'm sure all of the loyal servants of the State went home and slept peacefully, of course.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Mo » 29 May 2019, 16:46

thoreau wrote:This op-ed in Scientific American claims that if oil companies hire more women they will naturally be more innovative and forward-thinking and solve climate change.


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... redirect=1


Even if we grant every supposition about diversity and innovation (we shouldn't: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?clus ... 5&as_vis=1 ), I think a diverse and innovative team working within the incentive structures of an oil company would find more profitable ways to extract and sell oil, not ways to not sell oil.


The diversity kool-aid is amazing. You can claim that any and all great things will happen if you just take what you are doing and add diversity. Because women and minorities are so different from white and Asian men that they will completely modify the entire incentive structure rather than competing within it.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
The most famous diversity story does come from an oil company though. Basically a bunch of Exxon execs debated implementing pay at the pump. None of them thought it was a big deal. Afterward, IIRC, the CEO’s secretary said how much easier it would make her life than dragging the kids into the gas station and convinced him to implement it. Of course, that led to more gas being sold. ;)
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b » 29 May 2019, 18:41

Mo wrote:
29 May 2019, 16:46
The most famous diversity story does come from an oil company though. Basically a bunch of Exxon execs debated implementing pay at the pump. None of them thought it was a big deal. Afterward, IIRC, the CEO’s secretary said how much easier it would make her life than dragging the kids into the gas station and convinced him to implement it. Of course, that led to more gas being sold. ;)
I drink enough of the Kool-Aid to think that yeah, keeping people out of decision-making roles because of ethnicity, gender, etc. really can't be outcome-neutral because you're limiting perspectives and experience. Doing what's necessary to remove the systemic and associative barriers to qualified people (and to make it possible to get qualified) is worthwhile, though I wouldn't say enough to be an imperative worth enforcing on private organizations.

Government-backed ones, though, sure. For all that people sniffed at all the diversity-speak around, say, Sotomayor's appointment, she's brought damn good input into the USSC, especially around criminal justice issues.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by thoreau » 29 May 2019, 18:51

Recruiting broadly and evaluating people fairly is both the right thing to do and likely to net you better talent. You don't need kool-aid to believe that.

You need kool-aid to believe that oil companies will walk away from their business models if they have more diverse staff. Yes, every oil company has some R&D team working on alternative energy, partly as PR and partly to hedge their bets. But I am skeptical that the move away from carbon-based fuels will be a proactive step by oil companies, no matter how diverse their teams are. If oil companies move into new forms of energy it will be a reactive step after some breakthrough occurs elsewhere,.

In other words, oil companies should recruit broadly and evaluate people fairly because they are companies, not because they are oil companies, and not because we need to move away from carbon.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by JD » 13 Jun 2019, 15:52

Here's a completely incoherent bit of nonsense that was published in the Opinion section of the NY Times. The author starts by positing that we're going to have a post-scarcity economy in the future, then says that the only reason we have scarcity is capitalism, then says that the obvious way forward is Fully Automated Luxury Communism (capitals in the original).

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opin ... unism.html
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Jennifer
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jennifer » 13 Jun 2019, 16:44

Kurt Vonnegut wrote about a world with fully automated luxury capitalism in "Player Piano." The results were ... rather less pleasant than this author thinks they'd be.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Aresen » 13 Jun 2019, 17:09

One wonders if the author has read anything about the last century.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Painboy » 13 Jun 2019, 17:29

JD wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 15:52
Here's a completely incoherent bit of nonsense that was published in the Opinion section of the NY Times. The author starts by positing that we're going to have a post-scarcity economy in the future, then says that the only reason we have scarcity is capitalism, then says that the obvious way forward is Fully Automated Luxury Communism (capitals in the original).

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opin ... unism.html
Hans Rosling is rolling over in his grave.
To say the present era is one of crisis borders on cliché. It differs from the dystopias of George Orwell or Aldous Huxley, or hell in the paintings of Hieronymus Bosch. It is unlike Europe during the Black Death or Central Asia as it faced the Mongols. And yet it is true: Ours is an age of crisis. We inhabit a world of low growth, low productivity and low wages, of climate breakdown and the collapse of democratic politics. A world where billions, mostly in the global south, live in poverty. A world defined by inequality.

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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b » 13 Jun 2019, 21:07

JD wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 15:52
Here's a completely incoherent bit of nonsense that was published in the Opinion section of the NY Times. The author starts by positing that we're going to have a post-scarcity economy in the future, then says that the only reason we have scarcity is capitalism, then says that the obvious way forward is Fully Automated Luxury Communism (capitals in the original).

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opin ... unism.html
Yeah, it's a dumb meme that's been going around.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Jasper » 14 Jun 2019, 15:40

Eric the .5b wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 21:07
JD wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 15:52
Here's a completely incoherent bit of nonsense that was published in the Opinion section of the NY Times. The author starts by positing that we're going to have a post-scarcity economy in the future, then says that the only reason we have scarcity is capitalism, then says that the obvious way forward is Fully Automated Luxury Communism (capitals in the original).

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opin ... unism.html
Yeah, it's a dumb meme that's been going around.
Iain M. Banks' Culture.

Techno-utopia. Post singularity, post scarcity, benevolent god-like machines in control of everything.
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Re: OFFS: The Forsakening

Post by Eric the .5b » 14 Jun 2019, 21:01

Jasper wrote:
14 Jun 2019, 15:40
Eric the .5b wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 21:07
JD wrote:
13 Jun 2019, 15:52
Here's a completely incoherent bit of nonsense that was published in the Opinion section of the NY Times. The author starts by positing that we're going to have a post-scarcity economy in the future, then says that the only reason we have scarcity is capitalism, then says that the obvious way forward is Fully Automated Luxury Communism (capitals in the original).

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/11/opin ... unism.html
Yeah, it's a dumb meme that's been going around.
Iain M. Banks' Culture.

Techno-utopia. Post singularity, post scarcity, benevolent god-like machines in control of everything.
Yeah, they're usually big fans of that. I think that twit Cory Doctorow actually coined the phrase, though.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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