Orange is the new President

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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 19 May 2019, 17:04

They're hoping he'll join the Border Patrol, Jennifer.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 20 May 2019, 13:19

Jennifer wrote:
19 May 2019, 16:42
If this Twitter thread about what the guy did are true -- Jesus fucking Christ, this man should not be roaming free.

The counter-narrative by his supporters is that it's a spat inside his platoon over who should've gotten promotions and whether he deserved the Silver Star nomination he got, and the smear campaign aimed at derailing his promotion and medal got out of control and is now being taken seriously by NCIS.

There's also a big campaign to have him released pre-trial. I have no idea which narrative is true or true-er but there are also reports of death threats and witness intimidation and the guy's a goddamned SEAL so maybe we err on the side of caution and not let the most one-man-killing-machine America can produce get out of jail in case he really is the kind of guy who'd kill a little girl and also make threats about killing people who'd testify against him?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 20 May 2019, 13:29

Given all of the uncertainty around this case, let me offer a radical proposal:

Let's have a formal process for fact-finding. The accused can have the assistance of someone experienced in these processes, and call witnesses and present evidence in his defense. The government can have its own experienced people make the case against him with evidence and witnesses. The process can be overseen by a judge who has served in the military and is familiar with the sort of environment in which these has played out, and the jury can be composed of military officers who know something about the internal politics of military units and the circumstances of a battlefield.

This seems much better than picking between narratives in the NYT or Fox News or whatever other venue. And while the President does have the ultimate authority here, because of his authority it may be hard for him to get candid, unfiltered input from people knowledgeable of the situation. So let's put the decision in the hands of people a few rungs down, people who are knowledgeable about the internal dynamics of military units but not directly plugged into partisan politics.

Has something like this been tried before?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 20 May 2019, 13:52

thoreau wrote:
20 May 2019, 13:29
Given all of the uncertainty around this case, let me offer a radical proposal:

Let's have a formal process for fact-finding. The accused can have the assistance of someone experienced in these processes, and call witnesses and present evidence in his defense. The government can have its own experienced people make the case against him with evidence and witnesses. The process can be overseen by a judge who has served in the military and is familiar with the sort of environment in which these has played out, and the jury can be composed of military officers who know something about the internal politics of military units and the circumstances of a battlefield.

This seems much better than picking between narratives in the NYT or Fox News or whatever other venue. And while the President does have the ultimate authority here, because of his authority it may be hard for him to get candid, unfiltered input from people knowledgeable of the situation. So let's put the decision in the hands of people a few rungs down, people who are knowledgeable about the internal dynamics of military units but not directly plugged into partisan politics.

Has something like this been tried before?
Oh god you hippie fucking snowflakes with your system of laws and rights of the accused.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 20 May 2019, 14:04

Rights of the accused? Look, if a SEAL accuses someone of being a mooslim terrist I'm not looking to bring in lawyers to argue for the people he shot. I'm saying that this matter should be decided by our brave men (and women, if you insist on being PC) in uniform, not some politician who has never served.

As far as I'm concerned, if a SEAL says you're a terrist then he only needs to make that case to other military personnel. We don't need lawyers defending the mooslims he accuses of being terrists.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 20 May 2019, 14:12

Well yeah mooslims aren't murcans and I'm led to believe that it's only murcans who have rights.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 20 May 2019, 14:19

lunchstealer wrote:Well yeah mooslims aren't murcans and I'm led to believe that it's only murcans who have rights.
But only those Murcans in uniform, not politicians who have never served.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Hugh Akston » 24 May 2019, 16:34

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 27 May 2019, 16:41

I can't quite figure out if this is supposed to be pro-Trump disinformation, portraying him as a war hero, or anti-Trump disinformation, portraying him as being under Putin's influence for decades. Either way it is surreal.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Number 6 » 27 May 2019, 17:23

I think it's supposed to be a joke.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 27 May 2019, 17:28

It was pro-Trump disinfo from the IRA. Ignore the fact that Putin would have been 11 that year.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 27 May 2019, 17:52

It's 4chan. So, both?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 27 May 2019, 18:02

Mo wrote:It was pro-Trump disinfo from the IRA. Ignore the fact that Putin would have been 11 that year.
Czar Vladimir is great prodigy of martial prowess, tovarisch.

(And yes, I knew the whole thing was a fabrication, but I forgot Putin's age. Good catch.)

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 27 May 2019, 18:05

Also, it took me a minute to remember that IRA also means Internet Research Agency. I kept trying to figure out why Irish Catholic hardliners would make propaganda in support of an orange and nominally Protestant candidate. Unless they were playing a long game for Kavanaugh.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 28 May 2019, 14:47

In any other administration, there would be impeachment talk if the President was pushing for a major donor to get a contract rather than letting the contracting procedures unfold as usual.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigrat ... f93438df58

With Trump? Eh. Just one more scandal among dozens.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 28 May 2019, 14:59

thoreau wrote:
28 May 2019, 14:47
In any other administration, there would be impeachment talk if the President was pushing for a major donor to get a contract rather than letting the contracting procedures unfold as usual.
What makes you think so?
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 28 May 2019, 17:13

So what’s the bigger self-own the fact that they’re saying they’re not great or the violation of the UCMJ?

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 28 May 2019, 17:33

Mo wrote:
28 May 2019, 17:13
So what’s the bigger self-own the fact that they’re saying they’re not great or the violation of the UCMJ?

I have never known of a group of enlisted men to decorate their uniforms in such a manner on their own initiative. I have known commands to issue similar deviations to the uniform which are authorized onboard only. If that's the case here, there is no UCMJ violation. And even if it isn't, there's no stolen valor, impersonation, or such that article 134 is intended to address.

The pearl clutching and gnashing of teeth over this gives me the :roll:

One of the things I worry about is the myth of military service. There is an image the military, and especially the Marines, like to project of Clean Cut all American Patriotic young men and women proudly serving their country. In fact the military is primarily a place for losers and psychopaths. Serving on active duty at any command is stressful, serving underway on board ship or in a foreign country, doubly so, and I don't even want to think about serving in combat. There are things men do in such circumstances to keep chaos at bay that the general public is better off not knowing about.
Last edited by Warren on 28 May 2019, 17:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by lunchstealer » 28 May 2019, 17:35

I don't wanna be racist or anything, but maybe we shouldn't put Pakleds in leadership roles in the Navy.

Aircrew not great? Aircrew want to be great. Aircrew broken. You are smart, make Aircrew great again!

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 28 May 2019, 18:52

Wait! What? The ship isn't named in honor of White Anglo-Saxon Protestants?

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 28 May 2019, 22:17

thoreau wrote:
28 May 2019, 14:47
In any other administration, there would be impeachment talk if the President was pushing for a major donor to get a contract rather than letting the contracting procedures unfold as usual.
I dunno. As gutless as Team Blue is right now, I wouldn't expect them to impeach anyone.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 29 May 2019, 05:01

The positive feedback Amash got at his town hall moves me from 5% chance of it happening to about 20%.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 29 May 2019, 09:47

Mo wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:01
The positive feedback Amash got at his town hall moves me from 5% chance of it happening to about 20%.
Nah. In the first place, Amash isn't actually pushing for impeachment, he's distancing himself from the pack for a run at the throne (challenging Trump 2020 and then in earnest 2024 ala Reagan). In the second place, the election cycle is about to kick off (if we're not in it already) and ain't nobody got time to do both.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 29 May 2019, 10:25

Warren wrote:
29 May 2019, 09:47
Mo wrote:
29 May 2019, 05:01
The positive feedback Amash got at his town hall moves me from 5% chance of it happening to about 20%.
Nah. In the first place, Amash isn't actually pushing for impeachment, he's distancing himself from the pack for a run at the throne (challenging Trump 2020 and then in earnest 2024 ala Reagan). In the second place, the election cycle is about to kick off (if we're not in it already) and ain't nobody got time to do both.
For apostasy, Amash has no chance of getting the nomination, ever. The Trumpentariat is in full control of the GOP and will never forgive him. He will be primaried in 2020 for his congressional seat; we'll see if he survives that first.

Eric the .5b wrote:
28 May 2019, 22:17
thoreau wrote:
28 May 2019, 14:47
In any other administration, there would be impeachment talk if the President was pushing for a major donor to get a contract rather than letting the contracting procedures unfold as usual.
I dunno. As gutless as Team Blue is right now, I wouldn't expect them to impeach anyone.
I don't know if Team Blue is gutless so much as they see Trump as a useful foil to run against in 2020. If nothing else, he will motivate the Blue Base.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Pham Nuwen » 29 May 2019, 10:29

My understanding was he was getting primaried before breaking ranks. My timeline may be off.
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