The Abortion Thread

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Mo
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Mo » 23 Apr 2019, 18:21

Eric the .5b wrote:
Jennifer wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 15:14
Alabama's latest effort: criminalize abortion TWO weeks after conception, and make it a death penalty offense to boot.
In some wishful part of my mind, I want the next Roe v. Wade challenge to be something so stupid that it gets slapped down 8-1 or 9-0.

And yet, I'm not confident that would actually happen with something like this.
No way any abortion case is more of a blowout than 7-3
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thoreau
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by thoreau » 23 Apr 2019, 19:13

I would be truly excited to see a 7-3 SCOTUS verdict. It would be something that has never happened before.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 Apr 2019, 19:43

thoreau wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 19:13
I would be truly excited to see a 7-3 SCOTUS verdict. It would be something that has never happened before.
Well, it's the future (some) liberals want.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 23 Apr 2019, 20:40

Eric the .5b wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 16:11
Jennifer wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 15:14
Alabama's latest effort: criminalize abortion TWO weeks after conception, and make it a death penalty offense to boot.
In some wishful part of my mind, I want the next Roe v. Wade challenge to be something so stupid that it gets slapped down 8-1 or 9-0.

And yet, I'm not confident that would actually happen with something like this.
Replacing one liberal justice on the Supreme Court with one woman-hating conservative is all it will take -- and IIRC the most elderly justices are all liberal. I'm also concerned by how far right the Overton window has shifted amongst the forced-birth brigade: used to be even those who wanted to outlaw abortion understood that OF COURSE we'll make an exception for rape victims and women who will literally DIE if forced to carry the pregnancy to term -- but the GOP's so-called "Human Life Amendment" would ban aboriton even if necessary to save the pregnant woman's life. (Still, somehow, it is considered unfair to point to this and ask "What, so pregnant women aren't human? Or at least not human enough for THEIR lives to be worth saving?)
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Jennifer
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 23 Apr 2019, 20:44

JD wrote:
23 Apr 2019, 15:41
That Argentina story is really horrifying. If you're lying to an 11-year-old rape victim to prevent her from having an abortion, you just might be the bad guy, although I suppose they'll never see it that way.
Lying to an 11-year-old rape victim AND risking her health and her very life. But after the psychotic nonsense the forced-birth briagde has pulled these past few years, I'm having a very hard time thinking well of ANY "let's ban abortion"-types -- the kindest I can think to say about them is that they cultivate the same deliberate ignorance as do the hardcore drug warriors. "I will stubbornly ignore the constant non-hypothetical real world horrors my policies cause, and piously insist that *I* am the one trying to make the world a better place!"

If you like what the war on drugs has done to American civil liberties, you'll LOVE what the war on baby-murderin' sluts will do!
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 06 May 2019, 16:59

Georgia's sleazy governor Kemp is expected to sign a bill that would outlaw abortion after a fetal heartbeat exists -- whic is also before most women even know they're pregnant.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/06/politics ... K4l4HglIx0
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 07 May 2019, 16:50

Kemp signed the bill into law today. Even going out of state for a legal abortion would net a woman ten years in prison. Even by forced-birther standards, the contempt for women is breathtaking.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... rison.html
HB 481 would also have consequences for women who get abortions from doctors or miscarry. A woman who seeks out an illegal abortion from a health care provider would be a party to murder, subject to life in prison. And a woman who miscarries because of her own conduct—say, using drugs while pregnant—would be liable for second-degree murder, punishable by 10 to 30 years’ imprisonment. Prosecutors may interrogate women who miscarry to determine whether they can be held responsible; if they find evidence of culpability, they may charge, detain, and try these women for the death of their fetuses.

Even women who seek lawful abortions out of state may not escape punishment. If a Georgia resident plans to travel elsewhere to obtain an abortion, she may be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, punishable by 10 years’ imprisonment. An individual who helps a woman plan her trip to get an out-of-state abortion, or transports her to the clinic, may also be charged with conspiracy. These individuals, after all, are “conspiring” to end of the life of a “person” with “full legal recognition” under Georgia law.... For now, Supreme Court precedent protecting women’s reproductive rights should bar such prosecutions—and indeed, require the invalidation of HB 481. But the court’s conservative majority may be on the verge of dismantling Roe v. Wade. If that happens, Georgia and other conservative states will be free to outlaw abortion, and to imprison women who self-terminate. HB 481 is further proof that once Roe is gone, it won’t just be abortion providers who risk legal jeopardy: Women will be punished, too.
Well, of COURSE women will be punished. That's the whole fucking point of such laws.
Last edited by Jennifer on 09 May 2019, 03:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 08 May 2019, 17:07

Argentina is not the only country fucked-up enough to force an 11-year-old rape victim to bear her rapist's baby; America does too. This is out of Ohio:

https://buckeyestate.news/2019/05/03/po ... o2iU_aO_U8
Ohio’s new “heartbeat bill” means that the 11-year-old girl will likely be forced to carry the child to birth, regardless of the fact that she was raped.

According to NPR, the “Human Rights Protection Act,” as the heartbeat bill was renamed, bans abortions as early as five or six weeks, before many women even know they’re pregnant. It adds criminal penalties for doctors who violate the law, and does not include exceptions for cases of rape or incest.

“Ohio is the sixth state in the country to enact such a law, but none have yet to take effect due to lawsuits.”
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Mo » 08 May 2019, 17:11

The Ohio bill is bonkers because it requires women with ectopic pregnancies to surgically reimplant the embryo in the womb. The one problem with this is that it’s not a real medical procedure.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 08 May 2019, 17:32

If reality were their main concern, they wouldn't be so utterly convinced that an egg cell fertilized two seconds ago negates the human rights of the woman (or barely pubescent rape victim) in whom that egg cell resides.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by dhex » 08 May 2019, 17:54

Mo wrote:
08 May 2019, 17:11
The Ohio bill is bonkers because it requires women with ectopic pregnancies to surgically reimplant the embryo in the womb. The one problem with this is that it’s not a real medical procedure.
bonkers is a very polite way of saying psychotic - if taken at face value.

these have a lot of hallmarks of being court bait chud favors.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by nicole » 09 May 2019, 07:29

Mo wrote:
08 May 2019, 17:11
The Ohio bill is bonkers because it requires women with ectopic pregnancies to surgically reimplant the embryo in the womb. The one problem with this is that it’s not a real medical procedure.
I think that’s another bill currently under consideration (in addition to the heartbeat one that passed) and would only require this if you had your insurance pay for it. You could still pay yourself for a real ectopic pregnancy treatment. I mean, not that that’s good, obviously abortion should be the only available insured treatment for pregnancy.
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Mo
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Mo » 09 May 2019, 12:28

Here's a good way to get Republicans to back off these bills. Argue that personhood at conception means that a baby conceived in the US is a citizen and you can't deport a pregnant illegal alien because you're deporting a US citizen. Bill will be vetoed immediately.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Number 6 » 09 May 2019, 12:32

Mo wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:28
Here's a good way to get Republicans to back off these bills. Argue that personhood at conception means that a baby conceived in the US is a citizen and you can't deport a pregnant illegal alien because you're deporting a US citizen. Bill will be vetoed immediately.
There are levels of person, Mo.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by lunchstealer » 09 May 2019, 16:22

Number 6 wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:32
Mo wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:28
Here's a good way to get Republicans to back off these bills. Argue that personhood at conception means that a baby conceived in the US is a citizen and you can't deport a pregnant illegal alien because you're deporting a US citizen. Bill will be vetoed immediately.
There are levels of person, Mo.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 09 May 2019, 18:21

If a just-fertilized egg cell legally qualifies as a person, I wonder if pregnant women can buy life insurance policies for their missed periods and cash in if they miscarry? (Granted, this will be legally risky because in any such "abortion is murder" regime, women who miscarry will be interrogated on suspicion of murder. But the wealthy ones with friends in high places will manage okay; it's "only" poor miscarrying women likely to be imprisoned for their non-crimes.)
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Aresen » 09 May 2019, 18:44

Mo wrote:
09 May 2019, 12:28
Here's a good way to get Republicans to back off these bills. Argue that personhood at conception means that a baby conceived in the US is a citizen and you can't deport a pregnant illegal alien because you're deporting a US citizen. Bill will be vetoed immediately.
Thanks for the laugh, Mo.
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thoreau
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by thoreau » 09 May 2019, 19:16

Yeah, given the talk of eliminating birthright citizenship, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 10 May 2019, 07:32

Texas Senate removes exception that allows abortion after 20 weeks if the pregnancy is unviable

Can someone remind me again why it's considered dishonest to say these laws are motivated more by the desire to control women than any so-called concern for "life?"
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 12 May 2019, 15:42

Buncha forced-birthers went after me on Twitter this weekend, which is how I learned that, among other things, they don't believe pregnancies can EVER threaten the mother's life.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 15 May 2019, 15:40

Under the new law Alabama passed, a rape victim who gets an abortion, or the doctor who performs it, will face a MUCH longer prison sentence than the actual rapist.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Eric the .5b » 15 May 2019, 16:25

Jennifer wrote:
15 May 2019, 15:40
Under the new law Alabama passed, a rape victim who gets an abortion, or the doctor who performs it, will face a MUCH longer prison sentence than the actual rapist.
You know, I'd say Trump took off the brakes for these crazies, but we haven't had many shootings of abortion providers for a few years. I think he just took away that little voice in the back of their head that told them to try to sound halfway reasonable..
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Jennifer
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 15 May 2019, 16:31

Eric the .5b wrote:
15 May 2019, 16:25
Jennifer wrote:
15 May 2019, 15:40
Under the new law Alabama passed, a rape victim who gets an abortion, or the doctor who performs it, will face a MUCH longer prison sentence than the actual rapist.
You know, I'd say Trump took off the brakes for these crazies, but we haven't had many shootings of abortion providers for a few years. I think he just took away that little voice in the back of their head that told them to try to sound halfway reasonable.
More precisely, I think Trump empowered bigots of all stripes to be more open in their bigotry. A man who still gets elected despite saying things like "That-there federal judge is clearly untrustworthy, solely because he's of Mexican ancestry" and loses no support after saying that literal swastika-waving Nazis were "very fine people" does MUCH to make bigotry more socially acceptable than it was before.

The one good thing -- or the silver lining to this dark and scary cloud -- is, at least a lot of forced-birthers today are abandoning their hypocritical "Ooh, it's not because we hate women or want to control them" bullshit.
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Jennifer » 15 May 2019, 16:43

Looking at the long-term ramifications of these anti-woman bills, though: the one good thing is that it will make the white supremacists unhappy. Not all abortion opponents are white supremacists, of course -- but all white supremacists are abortion opponents (in addition to opposing pretty much everything else that might reduce the possibility an adult woman NEEDS to be dependent upon a man). And of course, even if these bills remain law, it's not wealthy women (or the daughters or mistresses of wealthy men) who'll be forced to have children they don't want; it will be poor women. And in this country, non-white women are far more likely to be poor than white women. Even with the GOP's newfound commitment to gerrymandering and voter suppression, they're still not going to be happy with the long-term demographic results of their forced-birth campaigns.
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Aresen
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Re: The Abortion Thread

Post by Aresen » 15 May 2019, 17:07

What are the odds that at least one of these 25 creeps has procured an abortion for a mistress or daughter carrying an 'inconvenient' fetus?
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