Orange is the new President

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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 04 Apr 2019, 14:48

I thought this idea was floated a month or so ago. Anyway, Cain's worked for the Fed before, and this nom wouldn't even attract attention if it weren't for the fact that Cain is famous already. (And that it's a 1 2 w the Moore pick)
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Kolohe
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Kolohe » 04 Apr 2019, 15:52



Though this twitter thread says that Cain's Fed Reserve experience was rather perfunctory.

Specifically this

The one important thing that regional Fed boards do is appoint their regional Fed presidents, subject to the approval of the Board of Governors in DC. Cain was on the Kansas board from 1992-96, and Fed Presidents are appointed in years ending in 1 or 6, so he never did this.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 04 Apr 2019, 16:13

thoreau wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 20:07
Maria Butina apparently went around telling her classmates that she worked for the Russian government. She used Twitter to communicate with her handler.

I'm starting to think that spies are what happens when a person with the mental acuity of a state paper-pusher decides to live dangerously. I'm willing to believe that the intelligence officers sitting behind desks in Beijing are smarter than this, but they're probably also smart enough to realize that they get the same state pension whether they stay in Beijing or risk arrest by the Secret Service.
You're conflating two different things. What Maria Butina and flash drive woman did isn't work that would typically be done by someone in an espionage agency. It's done by assets and agents. The espionage officer's job is to cultivate assets and agents and leverage them to get information and accomplish tasks. You don't spend a fortune training a case officer and funding the development of their network of assets to put them in a position where they can get scooped up and lose every dollar of your investment and the lives and freedom of their assets in an instant. It's why the Valerie Plame affair was so appalling to intelligence agencies.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Pham Nuwen » 05 Apr 2019, 11:43

Season 2 of the Mueller Report us really strange. I have no idea what is going on.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 05 Apr 2019, 12:21

The Mueller report is a tar baby and B'rer Trump is begging the Democrats not to throw him into the briar patch.

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Warren
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Warren » 05 Apr 2019, 13:30

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 12:21
The Mueller report is a tar baby and B'rer Trump is begging the Democrats not to throw him into the briar patch.
You takin notes thoreau? That's the way you play the briar patch.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 05 Apr 2019, 13:45

Pham Nuwen wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 11:43
Season 2 of the Mueller Report us really strange. I have no idea what is going on.
I know it is "Team" politics, but when Team Blue switches from 'See, Mueller is going to prove Trump should be impeached' to 'Mueller is a huge cover-up' and Team Red switches from 'Mueller is a hatchet man' to 'Mueller proved Trump was innocent' overnight, I really feel I've wandered into Winston Smith's cubicle.
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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 05 Apr 2019, 16:05

Aresen wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 13:45
'Mueller is a huge cover-up'
Nobody is saying that, at the moment. They're saying Barr is a huge cover up, which is not the same thing.
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 05 Apr 2019, 16:07

Shem wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:05
Aresen wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 13:45
'Mueller is a huge cover-up'
Nobody is saying that, at the moment. They're saying Barr is a huge cover up, which is not the same thing.
Shush! People are busy coming up with reasons why we can dismiss anyone who says that a President of the United States needs to be punished. Don't confuse them with facts! That sort of accountability happened in the 1970's (well, sort of) and every serious adult promptly agreed that it must never happen again.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by JasonL » 05 Apr 2019, 16:32

I'd love to get a truth serum read on the thoreau's head space. The relative weightings of "the real deal evidence is actually hiding under the Barr summary" and "OMG I've been yelling about how obvious this is for eighteen months and there is actually nothing to see pretty please give me something ANYTHING in full Mueller report" would be worth the price of admission.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 05 Apr 2019, 16:38

I think it's pretty obvious, from the publicly available info, that he was compromised to an extent that would make it impossible for him to get a security clearance or Pentagon contract were it not for the fact that he won an election.

I think it's pretty obvious, from the publicly available info, that people in his camp took a meeting that they never should have taken, and refrained from calling the FBI when they really should have. This is not a team that should have been allowed anywhere near matters of national security.

It may be that none of this amounts to provable crimes, and the Mueller report may very well show that. I'm open to that.

He admitted on TV that he fired Comey to shield himself, his people, and most importantly himself from investigation.

These are facts. If Mueller said that there are no provable crimes here then so be it, but they are still worthy of impeachment. As was discussed ad nauseum in 1998, not every impeachable act is illegal and not every illegal act is impeachable.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 05 Apr 2019, 16:42

To be clear, I have no idea whether it is a crime to not call the FBI when a Russian government employee offers you dirt on a political opponent. I'll let a lawyer answer that one.

I do think that if you don't call the FBI after getting offered that then you have no business working in the White House.

There are a whole lot of things in life where the standard has to be higher than "Is there enough admissible evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this person broke the law? No? Then it's all good!"
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Shem
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Shem » 05 Apr 2019, 17:00

JasonL wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:32
I'd love to get a truth serum read on the thoreau's head space.
And I'd love to get a truth serum read on why the most cynical people I know are so often eager to take the word of partisans when it comes to exonerating a Republican president. Hard to figure out why said cynics are happy to accept, with zero supporting evidence, the word of a guy who was auditioning for his job by defending the guy whose investigation he's overseeing. Who was apparently chastised by members of Mueller's team, and who won't even turn the full report over to the Gang of Eight, who are cleared to view pretty much any piece of evidence they need to see. Apparently the whole "government is full of liars from top to bottom" sentiment is not without some unspoken exceptions.
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 05 Apr 2019, 17:15

Worthy quote/paraphrase from John Oliver (via The Week):
Mueller's "report did not establish a criminal conspiracy between Russia and Trump's campaign, which is undeniably good news for the president," Oliver said. But "Trump was not completely exonerated. In fact, the report literally says it 'does not exonerate him.' The only way Mueller could have been clearer on that point is if he put hand-clap emojis between every word." Ordinarily, such news "might prompt headlines like 'President May Have Obstructed Justice,'" he said, but news organizations, like Trump's supporters, took "one piece of good news and rounded it up to two."

"Even if the investigation didn't conclude that Trump conspired with the Russians, that doesn't mean the whole thing was a waste of time," Oliver said. "Just for a moment, try and imagine that it all came out at once, and there was a single headline that said: 'Russia Confirmed to Have Interfered in Election, and President's Campaign Manager, Lawyer, Multiple Advisers Convicted of Crimes, and Trump and His Team Lied About Business With Russia, Contact With Russians, and Trump May Have Committed Campaign Finance Violations to Cover Up Affair With Adult Film Star Shortly After His Wife Gave Birth, and Which He Also Attempted to Continue But Ended Up Sitting Next to the Adult Film Star in a Hotel Room and Watching Shark Week.' Because all of that happened. And we know it one way or another as a result of Mueller's investigation."
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 05 Apr 2019, 17:27

Shem wrote:
JasonL wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:32
I'd love to get a truth serum read on the thoreau's head space.
And I'd love to get a truth serum read on why the most cynical people I know are so often eager to take the word of partisans when it comes to exonerating a Republican president. Hard to figure out why said cynics are happy to accept, with zero supporting evidence, the word of a guy who was auditioning for his job by defending the guy whose investigation he's overseeing. Who was apparently chastised by members of Mueller's team, and who won't even turn the full report over to the Gang of Eight, who are cleared to view pretty much any piece of evidence they need to see. Apparently the whole "government is full of liars from top to bottom" sentiment is not without some unspoken exceptions.
I don't think Jason is a partisan Red here. He never had much use for most of Obama's critics. And he pushed back on me when I said that Obama should have been impeached for violating the War Powers Resolution in Libya.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Aresen » 05 Apr 2019, 18:38

Shem wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:05
Aresen wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 13:45
'Mueller is a huge cover-up'
Nobody is saying that, at the moment. They're saying Barr is a huge cover up, which is not the same thing.
You don't have the same Facebook friends I do. But even if it is just Barr, it is the presumption of bad faith that I am referring to. Maybe Barr is covering up, maybe he isn't. I don't know. Neither do they.
thoreau wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:07
Shush! People are busy coming up with reasons why we can dismiss anyone who says that a President of the United States needs to be punished.
Though I personally would like to see him sucked into one of the turbines of Air Force One, it really doesn't matter to me if he is punished or not. I want him out of office. At this point, I think the least damaging way is for him to be voted out on November 3rd, 2020. 538 to 0 would be best, but watching his temper tantrum if it was 270 to 268 would be thoroughly enjoyable. I would even be happy if he took the Idi Amin option and settled in a nice dacha on the Black Sea.
Don't confuse them with facts! That sort of accountability happened in the 1970's (well, sort of) and every serious adult promptly agreed that it must never happen again.
What pissed me off after Nixon fell was not that he avoided prosecution, it was the way he got elevated to 'Respected Elder Statesman' afterwards. Especially his China trip in 1976 that helped sabotage Ford's campaign.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 05 Apr 2019, 20:19

thoreau wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 17:27
Shem wrote:
JasonL wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:32
I'd love to get a truth serum read on the thoreau's head space.
And I'd love to get a truth serum read on why the most cynical people I know are so often eager to take the word of partisans when it comes to exonerating a Republican president. Hard to figure out why said cynics are happy to accept, with zero supporting evidence, the word of a guy who was auditioning for his job by defending the guy whose investigation he's overseeing. Who was apparently chastised by members of Mueller's team, and who won't even turn the full report over to the Gang of Eight, who are cleared to view pretty much any piece of evidence they need to see. Apparently the whole "government is full of liars from top to bottom" sentiment is not without some unspoken exceptions.
I don't think Jason is a partisan Red here. He never had much use for most of Obama's critics. And he pushed back on me when I said that Obama should have been impeached for violating the War Powers Resolution in Libya.
Yeah, Jason is about the status quo.

That said, I'm at best mixed about the Mueller Report. Sure, it should be released, but we all know that while it will make Trump look slightly worse than he already does, it's not going to be enough to get him out of office.

It's kind of like the X-Files reboot idea I poked at when I had a weird fanficcy impulse. (Mulder and Scully are young FBI agents in the present day. The writer actually has an idea what's going on before the story starts. Go!) I eventually shelved the idea because I realized, after Snowden and Trump, that instead of the story being about them never being able to get hard proof of the conspiracies and whatnot, the story would be about them throwing hard proof at the world and it not changing anything.
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Orange is the new President

Post by JasonL » 05 Apr 2019, 22:02

My pet theory is there’s very mild politically uncomfortable stuff but the decision to withhold was intentionally designed to make donkeys overreact again.

I do not know what’s in it. I support releasing it. I just think the jump from speculation to speculation with very little restraint is funny.

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 05 Apr 2019, 22:39

Yes, I've only been speculating rather than citing publicly available info. I was irresponsible.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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thoreau
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by thoreau » 05 Apr 2019, 22:40

Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 20:19
It's kind of like the X-Files reboot idea I poked at when I had a weird fanficcy impulse. (Mulder and Scully are young FBI agents in the present day. The writer actually has an idea what's going on before the story starts. Go!) I eventually shelved the idea because I realized, after Snowden and Trump, that instead of the story being about them never being able to get hard proof of the conspiracies and whatnot, the story would be about them throwing hard proof at the world and it not changing anything.
This is depressing.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 06 Apr 2019, 02:42

thoreau wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 22:40
Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 20:19
It's kind of like the X-Files reboot idea I poked at when I had a weird fanficcy impulse. (Mulder and Scully are young FBI agents in the present day. The writer actually has an idea what's going on before the story starts. Go!) I eventually shelved the idea because I realized, after Snowden and Trump, that instead of the story being about them never being able to get hard proof of the conspiracies and whatnot, the story would be about them throwing hard proof at the world and it not changing anything.
This is depressing.
Hence why I shelved it, at least for now.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Mo » 06 Apr 2019, 04:54

JasonL wrote:My pet theory is there’s very mild politically uncomfortable stuff but the decision to withhold was intentionally designed to make donkeys overreact again.

I do not know what’s in it. I support releasing it. I just think the jump from speculation to speculation with very little restraint is funny.
Let’s not ascribe political brilliance to the same crew that stepped on the good “no collusion” news by joining in the ridiculous Obamacare suit. Especially when you consider that the DOJ joining with other states literally adds no additional possibility of the lawsuit being upheld or not.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Eric the .5b » 06 Apr 2019, 04:58

thoreau wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 22:40
Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 20:19
It's kind of like the X-Files reboot idea I poked at when I had a weird fanficcy impulse. (Mulder and Scully are young FBI agents in the present day. The writer actually has an idea what's going on before the story starts. Go!) I eventually shelved the idea because I realized, after Snowden and Trump, that instead of the story being about them never being able to get hard proof of the conspiracies and whatnot, the story would be about them throwing hard proof at the world and it not changing anything.
This is depressing.
...Though I did have the idea for a funny moment or two where, when faced with some local LEO who started scoffing at his latest theory, Mulder just whips out his phone and starts playing various clips of crazy shit happening that he posted to his YouTube account.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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JasonL
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by JasonL » 06 Apr 2019, 10:15

I don’t think he’s brilliant at anything other than “how to make them the most mad possible”. I do think he’s pretty good at that.

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Jennifer
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Re: Orange is the new President

Post by Jennifer » 06 Apr 2019, 13:42

Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 20:19
thoreau wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 17:27
Shem wrote:
JasonL wrote:
05 Apr 2019, 16:32
I'd love to get a truth serum read on the thoreau's head space.
And I'd love to get a truth serum read on why the most cynical people I know are so often eager to take the word of partisans when it comes to exonerating a Republican president. Hard to figure out why said cynics are happy to accept, with zero supporting evidence, the word of a guy who was auditioning for his job by defending the guy whose investigation he's overseeing. Who was apparently chastised by members of Mueller's team, and who won't even turn the full report over to the Gang of Eight, who are cleared to view pretty much any piece of evidence they need to see. Apparently the whole "government is full of liars from top to bottom" sentiment is not without some unspoken exceptions.
I don't think Jason is a partisan Red here. He never had much use for most of Obama's critics. And he pushed back on me when I said that Obama should have been impeached for violating the War Powers Resolution in Libya.
Yeah, Jason is about the status quo.

That said, I'm at best mixed about the Mueller Report. Sure, it should be released, but we all know that while it will make Trump look slightly worse than he already does, it's not going to be enough to get him out of office.

It's kind of like the X-Files reboot idea I poked at when I had a weird fanficcy impulse. (Mulder and Scully are young FBI agents in the present day. The writer actually has an idea what's going on before the story starts. Go!) I eventually shelved the idea because I realized, after Snowden and Trump, that instead of the story being about them never being able to get hard proof of the conspiracies and whatnot, the story would be about them throwing hard proof at the world and it not changing anything.
Reminds me of something I saw on Twitter some time ago -- long after "Trump scandal du jour" was commonplace-- something to the effect of "Remember those movies from the 70s and 80s, where someone uncovers evidence of massive wrongdoing somewhere, then the movie ends with the guy giving all this information to various newspapers, and the implication was 'Now that the media will expose this wrongdoing, it's going to stop'?"
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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