Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

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Kwix
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Kwix » 21 Dec 2018, 16:58

Warren wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 09:54
Tuco wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 06:24
So often those cult leaders are described as "charismatic," and man, they just seem like goobers. Remember the Heaven's Gate guy? Koresh? I wouldn't have followed those sons of bitches to the 7-11 if I was jonesing for a goddamn Snickers, but you hear quite often about how charismatic they are.

People are weird.
+ Jim Jones
Eh, I suppose it's a perverted form of confirmation bias.
A guy tells his crowd what they want to hear and they will block out all of the red flags. For example, people who voted for the Chosen One or the Tangerine.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 23 Dec 2018, 21:00

JasonL wrote:
18 Dec 2018, 10:40
I thought the current 5thC was pretty good. I don't agree with him on lots of things, but I like the cut of Yascha Mounk's jib.
I was not so enamored. Never the less I enjoyed listening to him and found the conversation stimulating.
Ben Smith OTOH needs a fire hose enema.
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Tuco
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Tuco » 24 Dec 2018, 06:10

Kwix wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 16:58
Warren wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 09:54
Tuco wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 06:24
So often those cult leaders are described as "charismatic," and man, they just seem like goobers. Remember the Heaven's Gate guy? Koresh? I wouldn't have followed those sons of bitches to the 7-11 if I was jonesing for a goddamn Snickers, but you hear quite often about how charismatic they are.

People are weird.
+ Jim Jones
Eh, I suppose it's a perverted form of confirmation bias.
A guy tells his crowd what they want to hear and they will block out all of the red flags. For example, people who voted for the Chosen One or the Tangerine.

Good example.

I might have pitched L. Ron Hubbard a couple bucks to go buy a toothbrush, though.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 27 Jan 2019, 11:08

The 5thC continues to p0wn public discourse. This week was so enjoyable I relistened to it. Very unusual for me. Favorite bit, Moynihan pitches a book idea
... I had a book idea (a long time ago) just called Guilty, and it's about all of the people that were supose like: Leonard Peltier - Guilty, Mumia - Totally Guilty, Sacco and Vanzetti - probably both guilty, definitely one guilty, the Rosenbergs - Guilty, Alger Hiss - Guilty, I mean keep going, oh like Rubin Carter - ehhhh probably guilty.

How bout O.J.?

Eh uh uh er - totally innocent.
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Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Mo » 27 Jan 2019, 13:16

Aside from possibly Mumia, who on that list are we supposed to like? And why isn’t Jonathan Pollard on the list?
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 27 Jan 2019, 13:58

Mo wrote:
27 Jan 2019, 13:16
Aside from possibly Mumia, who on that list are we supposed to like? And why isn’t Jonathan Pollard on the list?
The list is not complete. The snippet I quote omits the general thesis which is that time and again there is a counter narrative insisting that people convicted of major crimes are innocent, that that narrative serves a political agenda, and the people are actually guilty. Moynihan mentions it in reference to his assertion that even as established myths are debunked they are replaced by new myths. This is a musing over why it matters if Drumming Native American is a Vietnam veteran.

The quote is somewhat humorous when delivered audibly rapid fire.

ETA
We are not suppose to necessarily like anyone on that list. The quote is my best attempt to capture what Michael was saying and he truncated his sentence to start the list. What he wanted to say was probably "...people that were supposedly innocent, like..."
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 31 Jan 2019, 13:04

Philosophize This ep on Simulacra and Simulation. I’m starting to get a good feel for my disagreements with the pomo All Stars.

The claims are quite strong about narrative being reality but such claims are only strongly defensible in the realm of social reality. That is - the oft repeated argument that if you think all propositions are only incidentally correspondent to reality go ahead and jump out of the plane - that argument has some merit because the claims ARE all encompassing.

That said the processes described seem perfectly applicable to a wide range of claims where we pretend to have confidence intervals similar to gravitation but really don’t at all - news, education, sanity, psychology in general. I basically agree 100% with the proposed mechanisms in these spaces.

Where I disagree is not in the processes but in our complicity and active participation in narrative creation. It’s emergent from preferences not fed to us by a controlling elite. Elites are seeking ways to tell us the only story we will hear - our favorite story over and over again - with enough wrinkles like cool people now wear this color- they do that because the demand for such is infinite and alternate stories are of almost zero value to the targeted parties.

It’s a curse of wealth and the power to create identity. We lack the imagination to define complex or nuanced identities. Every new oz of nuance is more identity threat.

I get identity is important but why does the story have to be so damned stupid.


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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by nicole » 31 Jan 2019, 13:24

Warren wrote:
27 Jan 2019, 13:58
Mo wrote:
27 Jan 2019, 13:16
Aside from possibly Mumia, who on that list are we supposed to like? And why isn’t Jonathan Pollard on the list?
The list is not complete. The snippet I quote omits the general thesis which is that time and again there is a counter narrative insisting that people convicted of major crimes are innocent, that that narrative serves a political agenda, and the people are actually guilty. Moynihan mentions it in reference to his assertion that even as established myths are debunked they are replaced by new myths. This is a musing over why it matters if Drumming Native American is a Vietnam veteran.

The quote is somewhat humorous when delivered audibly rapid fire.

ETA
We are not suppose to necessarily like anyone on that list. The quote is my best attempt to capture what Michael was saying and he truncated his sentence to start the list. What he wanted to say was probably "...people that were supposedly innocent, like..."
Well, leftists/"right-thinking people" are supposed to like them. Pretty sure that's what he was saying. He was talking about how we've gone through a round of "myth-busting" by the likes of Howard Zinn so now "we're supposed to like" the Rosenbergs even though, yeah.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Ellie » 31 Jan 2019, 13:47

It was a queer, sultry summer, the summer they executed the Rosenbergs.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 31 Jan 2019, 15:53

nicole wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 13:24
Well, leftists/"right-thinking people" are supposed to like them. Pretty sure that's what he was saying. He was talking about how we've gone through a round of "myth-busting" by the likes of Howard Zinn so now "we're supposed to like" the Rosenbergs even though, yeah.
The Howard Zinn stuff yeah. But for the Rosenbergs et. al. most of the reason we're suppose to like them is they are held up as victims who were railroaded out of prejudice. That counter narrative needs them to be innocent. So like with Sacco and Vanzetti for instance, you can point to a lot of problems with the way their trial was conducted, all well and good. But Michael Dukakis proclaiming "any disgrace should be forever removed from their names", yeah no.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 31 Jan 2019, 17:25

Just think of all the Rosenbergs' victims! Like, um, uh...
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Andrew » 01 Feb 2019, 09:03

Hugh Akston wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 17:25
Just think of all the Rosenbergs' victims! Like, um, uh...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that providing info, even if it's just the recipe to a great PBJ sammich, to murderous regimes like Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Nazi Germany, or the Khmer Rouge... probably a bad thing.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Eric the .5b » 01 Feb 2019, 14:17

Andrew wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 09:03
Hugh Akston wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 17:25
Just think of all the Rosenbergs' victims! Like, um, uh...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that providing info, even if it's just the recipe to a great PBJ sammich, to murderous regimes like Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Nazi Germany, or the Khmer Rouge... probably a bad thing.
And when the information was nuclear secrets, that's one Hell of a sammich. Without the Rosenbergs, the USSR probably wouldn't have become a nuclear power in Stalin's lifetime.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 01 Feb 2019, 16:22

Andrew wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 09:03
Hugh Akston wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 17:25
Just think of all the Rosenbergs' victims! Like, um, uh...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that providing info, even if it's just the recipe to a great PBJ sammich, to murderous regimes like Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Nazi Germany, or the Khmer Rouge... probably a bad thing.
Granting that for the sake of argument, is it bad enough to justify being murdered by the state?
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 01 Feb 2019, 19:39

Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 16:22
Andrew wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 09:03
Hugh Akston wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 17:25
Just think of all the Rosenbergs' victims! Like, um, uh...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that providing info, even if it's just the recipe to a great PBJ sammich, to murderous regimes like Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Nazi Germany, or the Khmer Rouge... probably a bad thing.
Granting that for the sake of argument, is it bad enough to justify being murdered by the state?
I'm okay with it.
I mean, passing military secrets to foreign agents is quintessential treason. And if it's Stalinist Russia, I'd pull the switch.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 01 Feb 2019, 20:20

Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 19:39
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 16:22
Andrew wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 09:03
Hugh Akston wrote:
31 Jan 2019, 17:25
Just think of all the Rosenbergs' victims! Like, um, uh...
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that providing info, even if it's just the recipe to a great PBJ sammich, to murderous regimes like Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Nazi Germany, or the Khmer Rouge... probably a bad thing.
Granting that for the sake of argument, is it bad enough to justify being murdered by the state?
I'm okay with it.
I mean, passing military secrets to foreign agents is quintessential treason. And if it's Stalinist Russia, I'd pull the switch.
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 01 Feb 2019, 21:09

Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:20
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
Well when you fill in the To Whom and What Information blanks, it looks a lot less stupid to me.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 01 Feb 2019, 22:11

Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 21:09
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:20
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
Well when you fill in the To Whom and What Information blanks, it looks a lot less stupid to me.
I guess I'm less sanguine about one war machine having a strategic advantage over another.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 01 Feb 2019, 22:26

Hugh Akston wrote:
Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 21:09
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:20
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
Well when you fill in the To Whom and What Information blanks, it looks a lot less stupid to me.
I guess I'm less sanguine about one war machine having a strategic advantage over another.
This is that thing where there’s no difference between USSR and any other state. It’s a bad look meign.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 01 Feb 2019, 22:59

meign?
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 01 Feb 2019, 23:00

JasonL wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:26
Hugh Akston wrote:
Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 21:09
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:20
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
Well when you fill in the To Whom and What Information blanks, it looks a lot less stupid to me.
I guess I'm less sanguine about one war machine having a strategic advantage over another.
This is that thing where there’s no difference between USSR and any other state. It’s a bad look meign.
That's definitely one way to read it. Another way would be "it's not clear what gives the one country that dropped nuclear weapons on non-combatants a monopoly claim on them".
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 01 Feb 2019, 23:02

Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 23:00
JasonL wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:26
Hugh Akston wrote:
Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 21:09
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:20
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
Well when you fill in the To Whom and What Information blanks, it looks a lot less stupid to me.
I guess I'm less sanguine about one war machine having a strategic advantage over another.
This is that thing where there’s no difference between USSR and any other state. It’s a bad look meign.
That's definitely one way to read it. Another way would be "it's not clear what gives the one country that dropped nuclear weapons on non-combatants a monopoly claim on them".
Really? When I grew up every mother taught her children "Two wrongs don't make a right". Must be a regional thing.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by lunchstealer » 02 Feb 2019, 00:46

Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:59
meign?
Pronunciation of 'man' in either hispanic- or slavic- tinged diction.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 02 Feb 2019, 01:51

Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 23:02
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 23:00
JasonL wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:26
Hugh Akston wrote:
Warren wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 21:09
Hugh Akston wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:20
Right but the point I'm making is that treason is a stupid crime where they murder you for promulgating information.
Well when you fill in the To Whom and What Information blanks, it looks a lot less stupid to me.
I guess I'm less sanguine about one war machine having a strategic advantage over another.
This is that thing where there’s no difference between USSR and any other state. It’s a bad look meign.
That's definitely one way to read it. Another way would be "it's not clear what gives the one country that dropped nuclear weapons on non-combatants a monopoly claim on them".
Really? When I grew up every mother taught her children "Two wrongs don't make a right". Must be a regional thing.
I think dropping the Bomb is the first wrong, but what's the second?
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Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by lunchstealer » 02 Feb 2019, 01:58

Hugh Akston wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 01:51

I think dropping the Bomb is the first wrong, but what's the second?
Handing the bomb to the guy who'd be history's greatest monster if it weren't for Hitler?
Last edited by lunchstealer on 02 Feb 2019, 01:58, edited 2 times in total.
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