Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

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Warren
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Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Warren » 28 Dec 2018, 12:02

How Democrats can drive a hard bargain over the wall

I usually find Shikha Dalmia too dry or too limited in focus to capture my interest, but this one strikes me as readable and meaningful.
The upside of the TDS epidemic is that it has prevented Trump from doing a lot of stuff. The downside is that nobody gives a shit when politicians not Trump do the same thing. If everybody throwing a hissy over the Donald's immigration policies actually give a shit about families being ripped apart, they'd be aiming their guns at Democrats now. DJT is just the NE Pats of American politics.
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Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Mo » 28 Dec 2018, 12:55

The Democrats offered $25 B in wall funding in exchange for a dreamers bill. Stephen Miller and Trump turned it down. I know Trump is a Golden god to you, but he’s seriously fucked up on the wall if he wanted it.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Aresen » 28 Dec 2018, 13:42

The Blues don't give a shit about the Dreamers or the children separated from families beyond how they can manipulate the issue to get votes.

They are calculating that the shutdown is going to burn Trump more than it burns them, so they will take a 'brave stance' on the wall and the effects of Trump's immigration policies in order to prolong it.

Also, let's not the Red variety of TDS: That Trump is a genius who knows how to negotiate and get the deal he wants. They delude themselves that Trump can somehow dump on Congress without consequence.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Warren » 28 Dec 2018, 14:39

Mo wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 12:55
I know Trump is a Golden god to you,
The hell?
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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Hugh Akston » 28 Dec 2018, 15:08

Aresen wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 13:42
They delude themselves that Trump can somehow dump on Congress without consequence.
He sort of can though, right? I mean a) everybody's mind is already made up about Trump, and 2) nobody likes Congress. So it's not clear what negative consequences are going to come from holding his breath like a spoiled child, since that's what got him elected in the first place.
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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Jennifer » 28 Dec 2018, 15:14

Mo wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 12:55
The Democrats offered $25 B in wall funding in exchange for a dreamers bill. Stephen Miller and Trump turned it down.
I doubt Trump has any motivation beyond his own immediate self-perceived self-aggrandizement, but Miller is an outright unapologetic bigot and those Dreamers are overwhelmingly not white. The whole point of the wall, from Miller's perspective, is to keep people like the Dreamers OUT of the country.
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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Aresen » 28 Dec 2018, 15:32

Hugh Akston wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 15:08
Aresen wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 13:42
They delude themselves that Trump can somehow dump on Congress without consequence.
He sort of can though, right? I mean a) everybody's mind is already made up about Trump, and 2) nobody likes Congress. So it's not clear what negative consequences are going to come from holding his breath like a spoiled child, since that's what got him elected in the first place.
Congress does have the power to retaliate in a way that affects Trump, by denying him things he wants. They can also subpoena his cabinet. Also, there is a percentage of his supporters who are going to be affected by the shutdown.

It's long been observed that everybody hates Congress, but loves their own congressman, so the negatives of the shutdown affect Trump more than any individual congressman.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Mo » 28 Dec 2018, 15:57

Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 12:55
I know Trump is a Golden god to you,
The hell?
You regularly say Trump is no worse than other politicians and that his policies don’t hurt anyone. In this very thread you called him the NE Pats of American politics.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Mo » 28 Dec 2018, 15:59

Aresen wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 15:08
Aresen wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 13:42
They delude themselves that Trump can somehow dump on Congress without consequence.
He sort of can though, right? I mean a) everybody's mind is already made up about Trump, and 2) nobody likes Congress. So it's not clear what negative consequences are going to come from holding his breath like a spoiled child, since that's what got him elected in the first place.
Congress does have the power to retaliate in a way that affects Trump, by denying him things he wants. They can also subpoena his cabinet. Also, there is a percentage of his supporters who are going to be affected by the shutdown.

It's long been observed that everybody hates Congress, but loves their own congressman, so the negatives of the shutdown affect Trump more than any individual congressman.
Yup and only 25% support shutting down the government for the wall. What’s funny is that because of the parts of the government that are shut down now. Border Patrol agents aren’t getting paid.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Hugh Akston » 28 Dec 2018, 16:34

I'm not convinced that Trump's popularity with his base (which is all he really cares about) hinges on accomplishing anything substantial or is even affected by hurting people in that base (which all of his policies have managed to do to some extent). #MAGA is a personality cult, and they like him because "he fights". He can go eight solid years without planting one artistically designed steel slat and he will still be the greatest president of this or any timeline so long as he continues to give the impression that he's a tough guy fighting the good fight.
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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Aresen » 28 Dec 2018, 16:54

Hugh Akston wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 16:34
I'm not convinced that Trump's popularity with his base (which is all he really cares about) hinges on accomplishing anything substantial or is even affected by hurting people in that base (which all of his policies have managed to do to some extent). #MAGA is a personality cult, and they like him because "he fights". He can go eight solid years without planting one artistically designed steel slat and he will still be the greatest president of this or any timeline so long as he continues to give the impression that he's a tough guy fighting the good fight.
After watching his ratings on 538 for the past two years, I am beginning to believe that. (Latest Numbers Here - still in that 40 - 42% range.)

The only things that remain that could possibly dent it are a full-blown recession and ass-raping a choir boy on the White House steps. I wouldn't bet heavily on either.

TBS, the steady 51 - 53% who loathe him are enough to sink him on November 3, 2020 if the Blues can manage the turnout this time around. The only thing that can save him is a major terrorist attack in the last 60 days before the election.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Warren » 28 Dec 2018, 16:57

Mo wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 15:57
Warren wrote:
Mo wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 12:55
I know Trump is a Golden god to you,
The hell?
You regularly say Trump is no worse than other politicians and that his policies don’t hurt anyone. In this very thread you called him the NE Pats of American politics.
By that I mean he's hated by everybody that doesn't love him. It's a reference to The Sports Bar.
I strenuously object to "no worse than others" being characterized as "a Golden god".
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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Shem » 17 Jan 2019, 01:15

Aresen wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 13:42
The Blues don't give a shit about the Dreamers or the children separated from families beyond how they can manipulate the issue to get votes.
By your reckoning, does anybody genuinely care about anything?
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Re: Why Are Democrats Silent About the Dreamers?

Post by Aresen » 17 Jan 2019, 10:32

Shem wrote:
17 Jan 2019, 01:15
Aresen wrote:
28 Dec 2018, 13:42
The Blues don't give a shit about the Dreamers or the children separated from families beyond how they can manipulate the issue to get votes.
By your reckoning, does anybody genuinely care about anything?
Among the political class, no. The Blues proved that by their silence during Obama's drone war and the clusterfuck Obama and Clinton created in Libya.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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