Occam, Trump, and Russia

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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 19 Jul 2018, 15:32

It's interesting that the intelligence community is willing to leak the fact that the information came from somebody close to Putin. That fact hadn't previously leaked. Presumably the leak came now because the source is either dead or in hiding. And given the number of high-level Russian diplomats and other officials who have died in the past year...
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Aresen » 19 Jul 2018, 16:34

thoreau wrote:
19 Jul 2018, 15:32
It's interesting that the intelligence community is willing to leak the fact that the information came from somebody close to Putin. That fact hadn't previously leaked. Presumably the leak came now because the source is either dead or in hiding. And given the number of high-level Russian diplomats and other officials who have died in the past year...
Or that Putin wanted it to be known, though not officially.
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 19 Jul 2018, 16:43

thoreau wrote:It's interesting that the intelligence community is willing to leak the fact that the information came from somebody close to Putin. That fact hadn't previously leaked. Presumably the leak came now because the source is either dead or in hiding. And given the number of high-level Russian diplomats and other officials who have died in the past year...
Or that they figured that Trump burned the asset in Helsinki.
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 19 Jul 2018, 16:49

Mo wrote:
19 Jul 2018, 16:43
thoreau wrote:It's interesting that the intelligence community is willing to leak the fact that the information came from somebody close to Putin. That fact hadn't previously leaked. Presumably the leak came now because the source is either dead or in hiding. And given the number of high-level Russian diplomats and other officials who have died in the past year...
Or that they figured that Trump burned the asset in Helsinki.
Given the number of Russian officials who have died in the past year, if Trump's the leak it's likely that he did a awhile ago.

Either way, if Trump burned a source, that's gotta be impeachable. Gotta be.

Nah, they'd just say "BENGHAZI!!!! EMAIL SERVERS!!! VINCE FOSTER!!!"
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 19 Jul 2018, 17:08

thoreau wrote:
Mo wrote:
19 Jul 2018, 16:43
thoreau wrote:It's interesting that the intelligence community is willing to leak the fact that the information came from somebody close to Putin. That fact hadn't previously leaked. Presumably the leak came now because the source is either dead or in hiding. And given the number of high-level Russian diplomats and other officials who have died in the past year...
Or that they figured that Trump burned the asset in Helsinki.
Given the number of Russian officials who have died in the past year, if Trump's the leak it's likely that he did a awhile ago.

Either way, if Trump burned a source, that's gotta be impeachable. Gotta be.

Nah, they'd just say "BENGHAZI!!!! EMAIL SERVERS!!! VINCE FOSTER!!!"
The president can declassify what he wishes.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 19 Jul 2018, 19:05

"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 20 Jul 2018, 10:23

Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 20 Jul 2018, 12:44

Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 10:23
Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
I would be surprised if this whole thing has too big an impact on the NRA unless warier and more skilled operatives leave the central org leading to it fucking up.

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Painboy » 20 Jul 2018, 16:12

So some of this makes me wonder is there any way to go through non-official channels in Russia without those channels being connected to the mafia, intelligence agent, oligarch, or Putin henchmen? All countries have these back channels and influencers and are used by various politicos all the time to grease the wheels and get things done here or abroad. So is that even possible with Russia? Are we to assume everything flows to Putin one way or the other?

This is a question that I have seen many wonder about with China previously. Mostly that being where does a Chinese business end and the Chinese government begin given there level of involvement?

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 20 Jul 2018, 17:11

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 10:23
Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
I would be surprised if this whole thing has too big an impact on the NRA unless warier and more skilled operatives leave the central org leading to it fucking up.
Replacing LaPierre with Ollie North is a big downgrade.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jennifer » 20 Jul 2018, 17:14

Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:11
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 10:23
Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
I would be surprised if this whole thing has too big an impact on the NRA unless warier and more skilled operatives leave the central org leading to it fucking up.
Replacing LaPierre with Ollie North is a big downgrade.
Not if they want a leader experienced in under-the-table dealings with countries who are Not America's Friends.
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 20 Jul 2018, 17:18

Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:11
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 10:23
Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
I would be surprised if this whole thing has too big an impact on the NRA unless warier and more skilled operatives leave the central org leading to it fucking up.
Replacing LaPierre with Ollie North is a big downgrade.
Why? Did LaPierre have skillz? Or is just Ollie North's history?

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 20 Jul 2018, 17:35

LaPierre seemed to have decent political skills.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Painboy » 20 Jul 2018, 17:37

Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:35
LaPierre seemed to have decent political skills.
Yeah, the NRA certainly wasn't total crazypants then.

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 20 Jul 2018, 17:40

Wayne LaPierre may or may not be a better executive than Ollie North (depends on a lot of information I don't have), but in terms of alienating large chunks of America I think that LaPierre held his own. Thing is, alienating much of America doesn't hurt the NRA when they long ago decided on a strategy of preaching to the choir. That strategy will work as long as their choir is willing to donate faithfully and vote faithfully, and there are enough gerrymandered districts where the choir is of consequential size and the alienated folks are either few or else caught in the snare of various vote suppression laws.

Going full-wacko does have the potential to drive away competent people, of course, but America seems to have no shortage of political operatives who are competent at catering to the crazies, getting money from the right donors, and keeping the organization solvent.

And even if the NRA did manage to melt down, there are other gun rights groups that would gladly step into the void. Gun rights issues will continue to be of huge importance in the GOP for some time to come, and so there will be an organization that rallies the relevant base.
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Kolohe » 20 Jul 2018, 17:57

Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:11
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 10:23
Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
I would be surprised if this whole thing has too big an impact on the NRA unless warier and more skilled operatives leave the central org leading to it fucking up.
Replacing LaPierre with Ollie North is a big downgrade.
They didn't. LaPierre is in the same job (CEO & exec VP) he's been in for over 25 years, North is merely the biggest name that's held the title of President since Heston.

(To be clear, I didn't know any of this until they announced the new leadership. I too thought at first that Ollie was replacing The Pierre)
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 22 Jul 2018, 17:26

Painboy wrote:
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:35
LaPierre seemed to have decent political skills.
Yeah, the NRA certainly wasn't total crazypants then.
There are degrees of totally crazypants. Like if they replaced North with the Nuge, it would be even more crazypants.

Also, thanks K for the correction.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by lunchstealer » 22 Jul 2018, 18:16

Kolohe wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:57
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 17:11
Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Mo wrote:
20 Jul 2018, 10:23
Butina was denied a visa twice, then the NRA came to Russia.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... sas-734946
I would be surprised if this whole thing has too big an impact on the NRA unless warier and more skilled operatives leave the central org leading to it fucking up.
Replacing LaPierre with Ollie North is a big downgrade.
They didn't. LaPierre is in the same job (CEO & exec VP) he's been in for over 25 years, North is merely the biggest name that's held the title of President since Heston.

(To be clear, I didn't know any of this until they announced the new leadership. I too thought at first that Ollie was replacing The Pierre)
Didn't Selleck hold the Pres. title for a while after Heston's ALZ diagnosis?
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 27 Jul 2018, 09:57

Super serial and not at all in the bag for Trump, Andy McCarthy said the following about the Cohen news, "Look, I don't think that it's bad if campaigns are turning to foreign governments for dirt. It's not collusion. It's not something that's impeachable; it's icky, but that's what this is." When it's Obama in office, the line for impeachment is making the Iran deal or DACA.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by dhex » 27 Jul 2018, 10:47

How are the brit press covering trump? I'm hoping for snide dickery.
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 27 Jul 2018, 11:03

If Cohen's latest bombshell is verified, can we have an impeachment? Please? Pretty please?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Warren » 27 Jul 2018, 12:06

thoreau wrote:
27 Jul 2018, 11:03
If Cohen's latest bombshell is verified, can we have an impeachment? Please? Pretty please?
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JD » 27 Jul 2018, 12:25

dhex wrote:
27 Jul 2018, 10:47
How are the brit press covering trump? I'm hoping for snide dickery.
Isn't that how the British press covers everything all the time?
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jennifer » 27 Jul 2018, 13:27

dhex wrote:
27 Jul 2018, 10:47
How are the brit press covering trump? I'm hoping for snide dickery.
There's this one issue of the Economist I've saved for the cover art: remember that Miley Cyrus "Wrecking ball" thing from a few years ago? It's that, only with Cyrus replaced by a cartoon caricature of Trump. (The "wrecking ball" on the cover is smashing various longstanding US alliances, IIRC.)
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Aresen » 27 Jul 2018, 16:36

Jennifer wrote:
27 Jul 2018, 13:27
dhex wrote:
27 Jul 2018, 10:47
How are the brit press covering trump? I'm hoping for snide dickery.
There's this one issue of the Economist I've saved for the cover art: remember that Miley Cyrus "Wrecking ball" thing from a few years ago? It's that, only with Cyrus replaced by a cartoon caricature of Trump. (The "wrecking ball" on the cover is smashing various longstanding US alliances, IIRC.)
I think this is the one you mean.
Image
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