Occam, Trump, and Russia

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the innominate one
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by the innominate one » 03 Feb 2018, 10:38

Jadagul wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 03:17
the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.
*Gowdy

If he hasn't seen the actual intelligence, then why is he writing a memo and calling it a big deal? Yes, that's rhetorical. I know it's public relations/spin.
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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 03 Feb 2018, 20:42

If Nunes was smart, or even had above average intelligence, he would have withheld the memo, claim it was too hot for the FBI and let the legend build. The real thing is lame AF.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Highway
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Highway » 03 Feb 2018, 21:06

Mo wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 20:42
If Nunes was smart, or even had above average intelligence, he would have withheld the memo, claim it was too hot for the FBI and let the legend build. The real thing is lame AF.
Nunes really does seem like he takes the short bus to work...
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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 03 Feb 2018, 21:14

The memo was the Snakes on a Plane of government misdeed memos.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Shem
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Shem » 03 Feb 2018, 22:46

Jadagul wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 03:17
the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.
He can't see the intel because he "recused" himself from the Russia investigation, turning it over to Gowdy because he helped to campaign for Trump. Which is why the memo is even bigger bullshit, and why I absolutely can blame him.
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Jadagul
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jadagul » 04 Feb 2018, 00:01

Shem wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 22:46
Jadagul wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 03:17
the innominate one wrote:
03 Feb 2018, 02:38
Mo wrote:
02 Feb 2018, 22:56
Oh and now Nunes has admitted he didn’t even read the underlying intel.
Wow, that is so surprising. I am very shocked and surprised. I did not see that coming at all.
You can't actually really blame him for that. The deal is that one Republican and one Democrat on the committee get to actually see all the underlying intel. (Also one staffer for each of them, and same on the Senate side---this is what they call the "Gang of Eight"). For whatever reason, the Republican they've authorized for that is Gowdry, not Nunez. So he's actually not allowed to see the intel.
He can't see the intel because he "recused" himself from the Russia investigation, turning it over to Gowdy because he helped to campaign for Trump. Which is why the memo is even bigger bullshit, and why I absolutely can blame him.
Sorry, I was unclear.

The memo is utter bullshit, and you can 100% blame him for that.

You can maybe blame him for trying to push the memo when he hadn't read the underlying intelligence, purely because he hadn't read the underlying intelligence. But presumably someone has read the intelligence (apparently it's Kash Patel), and it's perfectly reasonable to say "whoah, this intelligence summary looks really bad, we need to tell people".

What you can't blame him for is the fact that he hasn't read the intelligence. Like, if you're asking "why the fuck has this guy not done his job and read the intel?" then there's a very good reason for that.

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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 04 Feb 2018, 00:12

Meanwhile, Carter Page was deemed "an idiot" by Russian spies, but possibly a useful one:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/04/04/rus ... idiot/amp/

In 2013 he was bragging about his Kremlin ties:

http://time.com/5132126/carter-page-russia-2013-letter/
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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lunchstealer
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by lunchstealer » 13 Feb 2018, 18:05

Popehat lawsplains regarding FruitOfThePoisonedTreeGate:

https://www.popehat.com/2018/02/12/laws ... stigation/
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JasonL
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by JasonL » 14 Feb 2018, 10:49

I thought that was quite useful. I have a friend who is relatively close to warrants in non FISA environments who was pretty insistent this was something that'd get a prosecutor actually arrested. Now, I suspect that view was formed by taking Nunez at face value, (i.e. there was no disclosure at all of political nature of a piece of data). He was hoping for a full review of FISA stuff precisely because it looks like abuse of the process for explicitly political outcomes. I just don't think that's a plausible scenario.

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Shem
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Shem » 16 Feb 2018, 14:15

Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces

Mueller alleged that Russian operatives “communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign”, but the indictment did not address the question of whether anyone else in Trump’s team had knowingly colluded.
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Highway
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Highway » 16 Feb 2018, 14:36

Shem wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 14:15
Thirteen Russians criminally charged for interfering in US election, Mueller announces

Mueller alleged that Russian operatives “communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign”, but the indictment did not address the question of whether anyone else in Trump’s team had knowingly colluded.
I'm waiting for the Trump tweet of "See, there's no collusion! We're just dupes!"
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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 16 Feb 2018, 15:08

AURE ENTULUVA!!!!
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Mo
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Mo » 16 Feb 2018, 15:41

With the news that the Russians went after Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, I can expect both of them to endorse the Russians for president. But don't worry, Rubio will subtweet them with Bible verses.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 16 Feb 2018, 17:00

Meanwhile, another Trump campaign official is close to a plea deal:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/politics ... index.html
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 16 Feb 2018, 17:18

So, let's assume the most charitable possible scenario: The people at the top of the Trump camp were dupes, played by the Russians. Their worst crimes involve shady real estate deals, not knowing collusion with a foreign intelligence service. Yes, Russia managed to insert guys like Manafort into Trump's circle, but the Don and his sons were innocent dupes. We're still left with a President who is both so incompetent and so crooked (vis-a-vis his willingness to do business with Russian gangsters) that the Russian government was able to insert all sorts of people around him, and manipulate his campaign.

How does Congress not impeach? A man that compromised can't run the government, unless he essentially agrees to be ceremonial head of state while Mike Pence is effectively PM.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Jennifer
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jennifer » 16 Feb 2018, 19:30

thoreau wrote:
16 Feb 2018, 17:18
How does Congress not impeach? A man that compromised can't run the government, unless he essentially agrees to be ceremonial head of state while Mike Pence is effectively PM.
Typical liberal propaganda topped by an unhealthy dollop of wishful thinking. The whole system is corrupt and there's no reason to think the Democrats are any better than the Republicans. Besides, Hillary would've been just as bad, if not worse. Give your incoherent Democrat-love a rest. The only reason HIllary hasn't already been arrested and charged with treason over Benghazi and the Clinton Foundation uranium payoffs is the corruption of the ....... [ad infinitum]
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Highway
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Highway » 16 Feb 2018, 19:44

Plus "We knew Trump wasn't perfect, but he's pushing our agenda, and that's more important than things like personal character or being blackmailable or being public with his thoughts about women and minorities (when we're a lot more careful to be quiet about them)."
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

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Jennifer
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jennifer » 18 Feb 2018, 00:10

Wow. There really isn't a limit to how low he'll sink, is there?

"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Jennifer » 18 Feb 2018, 00:16

Holy shit. I saw this earlier but thought it was from the Onion's cartoonist. But no; it's Ben Garrison. This is what Trumpsters actually believe.

"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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dhex
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by dhex » 18 Feb 2018, 08:30

i know there are dead kids but hahahahahah ahahah ahahahah oh god that's amazing.
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nicole
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by nicole » 18 Feb 2018, 08:34

Trumpkins are the best people
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dhex
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by dhex » 18 Feb 2018, 12:40

anytime i see more than three hashtags i know i'm in for something special. sometimes it's whimsically stupid special and sometime's its bite down on the leather bit special.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

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Painboy
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Painboy » 18 Feb 2018, 14:09

I'm all for artistic expression but I'm not going make much of a fuss if all editorial cartoonists get rounded up and put in camps.

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Sandy
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by Sandy » 18 Feb 2018, 15:33

I can never tell if Ben Garrison is serious or if he’s seeing how long he can post Onion cartoons and Trumpkins won’t get the joke.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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thoreau
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Re: Occam, Trump, and Russia

Post by thoreau » 18 Feb 2018, 21:10

Another person from the Trump campaign is about to plead guilty and testify against Manafort:

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html

I wonder if that's part of why Trump was so grumpy on Twitter this weekend.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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