The Well-Dressed Man

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dhex
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by dhex » 20 Sep 2019, 11:44

Yeah I realized that was the inspiration in the car on the way back. Poor sales associate.
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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Hugh Akston
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Hugh Akston » 03 Oct 2019, 11:26

While we're on the topic of oppressive uniforms:
How the power suit lost its power
Although the suit is historically associated with projecting elegance, authority, and mastery of a profession, those qualities hearken back to the days when suits were prevalent, worn by the Atticus Finches and Don Drapers of the world. How long until we realize the suit — while still used for special occasions and by a shrinking number of traditionalists — has become associated with the opposite? The suit has become a uniform for the powerless.
When you’re in control, at least in relative control, from the C-suite down to the long rectangular table in the open-air office, you wear whatever you want, which is almost never a suit. It is the vest or bomber jacket for men, a blouse or a shell top for women. For people wealthy enough to attend wine country casual weddings, the male guests (and potentially the groom) can get by with light slacks and a button-down. At this year’s Oscars, the male celebrities who garnered the most headlines, like Chadwick Boseman, spurned suits for outfits that resembled dresses. JPMorgan lightened its dress code to business casual for most of its 237,000 employees in 2016. Goldman Sachs, the financial firm reputed to “rule the world,” nixed its suit requirement in March.
Tabler, though he still wears a suit to the office (he says he’d feel naked without one), mentions that younger male lawyers have perhaps moved beyond the suit because formal attire leaves them ill-equipped to handle expanded duties in their family life. That was a problem with the power suit. Physically and symbolically, it insulated men from work around the home.

But middle-class hotel clerks, salespeople, and job candidates cannot decide to ditch their suits the way tech workers, bankers, and lawyers have. “There’s a class element to it,” Clemente says. “In order to say I don’t have to wear a suit you have to be of a certain socioeconomic class.”
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JasonL
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by JasonL » 03 Oct 2019, 11:32

Tiresome Things in 2019, an Ever Expanding List

...

235 - Making class arguments about people who wear suits being left out of the suitless elite. FFS

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Warren
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Warren » 03 Oct 2019, 11:45

JasonL wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 11:32
Making class arguments about people who wear suits being left out of the suitless elite. FFS
You're misstating the point. It's not about a class being left out. It's just a documentation of changing norms across the class spectrum.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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JasonL
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by JasonL » 03 Oct 2019, 11:47

Ahh. That's possible. I thought it was more wah wah poor people in suits. Did not rtfa.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 03 Oct 2019, 11:58

It's largely true and the men's clothing business has been in free fall for decades now. By contrast, my father, who was a painter (not an artist) shaved and put on a coat and tie to drive to work every day of his work life, changing into overalls at his worksite locker room, men and women dressed just to go out in public. And as we have discussed frequently, as clothing became less and less a symbol of status and rank in America, both the need to demonstrate or to pretend one had a certain rank took its predictable hit on men's business attire.

That said, it's also true that at least several surveys have found that the single sexiest thing most women think a man can wear is a good, well tailored suit.

I think one of the things we subliminally like about period films is the costumes. No, no one really wants to dress like that all the time any longer, not even me. But they evoked a sense of style and civility that is lost in our fast fashion culture and I'm fairly sure my own generation of jeans wearing hippies ushered in the early stages of the shift. My understanding of West Coast status culture is that people still strive to make impressions by the car they drive while the Silicon Valley culture's deliberate "revenge of the nerds" attitude of disruption is, in its own way, the long hair and Levis of my youth. That said, there is still a significant divide on this issue between West Coast and East Coast culture and I am, very definitely, a product of East Coast culture.

Yes, I'm a curmudgeon. I think most people dress abominably in public or if not most people at least way too many people. And I like occasionally going to cocktail parties and such where the women are all wearing dresses and the men are all wearing jackets and ties. I don't want to go to a "destination restaurant" where everyone is wearing shorts and flip-flops and sports logo tops. Maybe clothing isn't the end-all be-all of civility, but it's a part of it, and the fact that obviously many of you don't miss it doesn't mean it isn't missing.

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nicole
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by nicole » 03 Oct 2019, 12:02

Wow, I'm only a few paragraphs in and I disagree with so much in the article already.
uckerberg’s suit was navy and his tie was bright blue, a shade or two lighter than Facebook’s color scheme. The New York Times called it his “I’m Sorry Suit” and, like many outlets, praised his appearance and poise. He was lauded for a “strategic” decision to make a visual statement of contrition.

Had he? Or was he in a suit because Congress had dictated the terms for him? For one of the few times in his adult life, sweating through a barrage of government questions, Zuckerberg was not in control. And these days, when you are not in control you wear a suit.
...
Although the suit is historically associated with projecting elegance, authority, and mastery of a profession, those qualities hearken back to the days when suits were prevalent, worn by the Atticus Finches and Don Drapers of the world. How long until we realize the suit — while still used for special occasions and by a shrinking number of traditionalists — has become associated with the opposite? The suit has become a uniform for the powerless.
Zuckerberg was absolutely trying to project authority and mastery by wearing a suit. He was trying to project seriousness and trustworthiness. He was trying to avoid projecting flippancy or lack of gravity with his usual hoodie.

By the way, what were most of the legislators questioning him wearing? Were they projecting authority, or were they in trouble and powerless?
There are exceptions. Women celebrities have recently donned suits in glitter and velvet and purple, modernizing a Marlene Dietrich staple, and the suit is an important component of non-binary clothing trends. Those choices are made to subvert expectations of the suit. But most people who wear suits are men. And they wear them because they have to please someone else, whether it’s an employer or Congress. Unless you live on Park Avenue, the suit brings to mind job interviews, junior salespeople, young employees behind the counter at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, hotel clerks, and court appearances.
Women don't wear suits to subvert expectations of the suit. They do it to subvert expectations of women!!! Why do you think it is an important component of nonbinary clothing trends?!?

Jfc.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 03 Oct 2019, 12:37

I thought women wore suits because they could and because it's a fashion option, not (any longer) because it's somehow a subversive assault on male power. I don't know how many men would like to wear women's clothes in public but, the LGBTQ movement aside, as a practical matter they can't.

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Jadagul
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Jadagul » 03 Oct 2019, 20:12

Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 03 Oct 2019, 20:17

Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.

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dhex
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by dhex » 04 Oct 2019, 12:46

It's good to see slate pitches are alive and well (in this case at vox).
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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Dangerman
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Dangerman » 05 Oct 2019, 13:04

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17
Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.

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Jadagul
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Jadagul » 05 Oct 2019, 14:09

Dangerman wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 13:04
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17
Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.
Sometimes I wear a tie. But not usually.

Suits look good! There's no reason to confine them to when you're dressing semi-formal.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Eric the .5b » 05 Oct 2019, 21:25

Jadagul wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 14:09
Dangerman wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 13:04
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17
Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.
Sometimes I wear a tie. But not usually.

Suits look good! There's no reason to confine them to when you're dressing semi-formal.
i have to admit, I pretty much see "wearing a suit" as the definition of dressing formal-ish. I mean, short of some kind of dress uniform, what else could I wear to accomplish formal dress?
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 05 Oct 2019, 21:39

Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:25
Jadagul wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 14:09
Dangerman wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 13:04
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17
Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.
Sometimes I wear a tie. But not usually.

Suits look good! There's no reason to confine them to when you're dressing semi-formal.
i have to admit, I pretty much see "wearing a suit" as the definition of dressing formal-ish. I mean, short of some kind of dress uniform, what else could I wear to accomplish formal dress?
An evening gown?

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Warren
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Warren » 05 Oct 2019, 21:41

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:39
Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:25
Jadagul wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 14:09
Dangerman wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 13:04
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17
Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.
Sometimes I wear a tie. But not usually.

Suits look good! There's no reason to confine them to when you're dressing semi-formal.
i have to admit, I pretty much see "wearing a suit" as the definition of dressing formal-ish. I mean, short of some kind of dress uniform, what else could I wear to accomplish formal dress?
An evening gown?
Not without shaving his pits.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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dhex
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by dhex » 05 Oct 2019, 22:11

Suit without a tie is fine sometimes. Good for dinner after work so long as you look like you did it on purpose.
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Eric the .5b » 05 Oct 2019, 22:19

Warren wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:41
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:39
Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:25
Jadagul wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 14:09
Dangerman wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 13:04
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17


Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.
Sometimes I wear a tie. But not usually.

Suits look good! There's no reason to confine them to when you're dressing semi-formal.
i have to admit, I pretty much see "wearing a suit" as the definition of dressing formal-ish. I mean, short of some kind of dress uniform, what else could I wear to accomplish formal dress?
An evening gown?
Not without shaving his pits.
And my legs. And chest. And back.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Jadagul
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Jadagul » 06 Oct 2019, 00:12

Eric the .5b wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 21:25
Jadagul wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 14:09
Dangerman wrote:
05 Oct 2019, 13:04
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:17
Jadagul wrote:
03 Oct 2019, 20:12
Yeah, personal experience says that suits still project power. At least, if you're wearing one that fits well on purpose, rather than looking like you stuffed yourself into one because you had to.

I wear a suit (no tie) most of the time now. It very definitely gets good reviews. I'm often the only one in the room.
Jadagul, you're often the only one in the room even when it's crowded.
He lost me at "suit, no tie". That seems like what you'd wear to a Oscars night after party in '96.
Sometimes I wear a tie. But not usually.

Suits look good! There's no reason to confine them to when you're dressing semi-formal.
i have to admit, I pretty much see "wearing a suit" as the definition of dressing formal-ish. I mean, short of some kind of dress uniform, what else could I wear to accomplish formal dress?
Without a tie, suits are definitely casual. They're nice casual. They look good. And they project power and control. But they're still casual.

Which is why everyone else is saying a suit without a tie is a good look for dinner after work or late partying or something.

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Warren
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Warren » 06 Oct 2019, 00:41

There is absolutely nothing casual about a suit. Nothing.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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dhex
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by dhex » 11 Oct 2019, 21:51

Bought these today with 20% off.

https://www.shoebank.com/FactorySecondI ... E&SIZE=130

Lambskin lining whuuuu
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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JasonL
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by JasonL » 11 Oct 2019, 22:26

I love burgundy in theory. I have trouble matching outside of navy tho.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 11 Oct 2019, 23:37

JasonL wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 22:26
I love burgundy in theory. I have trouble matching outside of navy tho.
Works with dark grey, too.

I get a kick sometimes out of the names these things get. Maybe I'm wrong, but I kinda doubt Jefferson ever wore wingtips.

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dhex
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by dhex » 12 Oct 2019, 06:33

JasonL wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 22:26
I love burgundy in theory. I have trouble matching outside of navy tho.
Per dar any Grey will work. Also certain tans or browns.

Since all I wear is either a shade of blue or a shade of Grey this will go with everything.
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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Ellie
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Re: The Well-Dressed Man

Post by Ellie » 12 Oct 2019, 10:32

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
11 Oct 2019, 23:37
I get a kick sometimes out of the names these things get. Maybe I'm wrong, but I kinda doubt Jefferson ever wore wingtips.
Thomas or George?
"2019 has got to stop injecting dmt straight in the dick hole." - dhex

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