The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

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the innominate one
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 19 Sep 2017, 15:09

I hear Applebee's isn't even fucking food.

A good reason to complain about HIdden Figures, based on the article Mo linked, is that they actually exaggerated some of the discrimination. A docu-drama based on history ought to get most of the history correct, not take unnecessary liberties in storytelling.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Mo » 19 Sep 2017, 15:35

the innominate one wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:09
I hear Applebee's isn't even fucking food.

A good reason to complain about HIdden Figures, based on the article Mo linked, is that they actually exaggerated some of the discrimination. A docu-drama based on history ought to get most of the history correct, not take unnecessary liberties in storytelling.
Yeah, but that's pretty normal. The whole dick coach part of Rudy was all dramatic flair.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 19 Sep 2017, 15:47

the innominate one wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:09
I hear Applebee's isn't even fucking food.

A good reason to complain about HIdden Figures, based on the article Mo linked, is that they actually exaggerated some of the discrimination. A docu-drama based on history ought to get most of the history correct, not take unnecessary liberties in storytelling.
So why is it unreasonable to ask that a docu-drama based on engineering ought to get most of the engineering correct?
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by JasonL » 19 Sep 2017, 15:56

What's the most technically accurate technically complex story Hollywood has ever told? I'm thinking there isn't a lot of precedent.

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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 19 Sep 2017, 16:09

Warren wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:47
the innominate one wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:09
I hear Applebee's isn't even fucking food.

A good reason to complain about HIdden Figures, based on the article Mo linked, is that they actually exaggerated some of the discrimination. A docu-drama based on history ought to get most of the history correct, not take unnecessary liberties in storytelling.
So why is it unreasonable to ask that a docu-drama based on engineering ought to get most of the engineering correct?
Because the history is largely a story, and anyone can understand a story. Getting the facts right on "what happened" isn't hard, or at least knowingly not distorting the facts shouldn't be hard. Most of the audience, the crew, the cast, the producers, and the directors are not going to understand the engineering without a lot of background information, and then you've got a documentary, which people are not going to pay $10 to see in a theatre, nor will they watch it streaming on Netflix in the comfort of their own home.

I'm not going to complain that the recent season of BoJack Horseman gets the genetic paternity testing wrong, I'm going to ignore it. Yes, I know BoJack is wholly fictional, but the basic premise is similar enough: they're using real-world science in their story, but incorrectly.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 19 Sep 2017, 16:10

JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:56
What's the most technically accurate technically complex story Hollywood has ever told? I'm thinking there isn't a lot of precedent.
Apollo 13? The Right Stuff? (I haven't seen either.)
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by dbcooper » 19 Sep 2017, 16:31

JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:56
What's the most technically accurate technically complex story Hollywood has ever told? I'm thinking there isn't a lot of precedent.
The Insider probably had the best portrayal of a scientist. Will have to think about the portrayal of the science!
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 19 Sep 2017, 17:02

JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:56
What's the most technically accurate technically complex story Hollywood has ever told? I'm thinking there isn't a lot of precedent.
There isn't.
The Martian wasn't too bad. I understand it was heavily vetted.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Sep 2017, 19:11

the innominate one wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 16:10
JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:56
What's the most technically accurate technically complex story Hollywood has ever told? I'm thinking there isn't a lot of precedent.
Apollo 13? The Right Stuff? (I haven't seen either.)
Apollo 13 was an earnest effort to get the science and history basically correct. Some things got glossed over or stretched for storytelling purposes. For instance, these two excerpts describe a problem they had with carbon dioxide scrubbing and a solution they came up with.



It was a totally real solution:

Image

...But it didn't happen exactly that way. Basically, one guy brainstormed the solution while driving in. Maybe even more impressive than the team-MacGyvering, but the scene as filmed spells out what the problem was in a way that the audience can follow and gives a great visual of what they had to work with. That's more important for understanding the situation than how many people solved the problem.

Every medium has limits. Any work has to respect those limits and prioritize the facts when trying to present science or history.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 19 Sep 2017, 19:24

That's what I was thinking of. My MS advisor has seen it and he was going on about that scene at one point. I think I looked up the clip and watched it. Thanks, thoreau. I didn't know how accurate or inaccurate that was.

I think exaggerating the racism faced by the women in Hidden Figures is worse, because if a lot of people see the movie, that's how they'll remember the history, not any caveats about movies not being perfectly accurate. I don't deny the women that the story is about faced sexism and racism, but there shouldn't be any need to make things seem worse than they were, they were bad enough.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Kolohe » 19 Sep 2017, 19:33

JasonL wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 15:56
What's the most technically accurate technically complex story Hollywood has ever told? I'm thinking there isn't a lot of precedent.
The Ten Commandments.

Or Office Space.

(But seriously, one of the more obvious liberties that Apollo 13 took was stuff that took place in Florida vs stuff that took place in Texas wound up to be in one vaguely defined location.)
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 19 Sep 2017, 19:39

Eric the .5b wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 19:11
Basically, one guy brainstormed the solution while driving in. Maybe even more impressive than the team-MacGyvering, but the scene as filmed spells out what the problem was in a way that the audience can follow and gives a great visual of what they had to work with. That's more important for understanding the situation than how many people solved the problem.
Where did you hear that?
This version is more in keeping with the movie
Using only the type of equipment and tools the crew had on board –including plastic bags, cardboard, suit hoses, and duct tape — Smylie and his team conceived a configuration that just might work.

“The concept seemed to evolve as all looked on,” Woodfill said. “It was to attach a suit hose into a port which blew air through the hose into an astronaut’s space suit. If the space suit was eliminated and, instead, the output of the hose somehow attached to the square filter, perhaps, the crew could be saved. This, in effect, would bypass the barrel. The air blown through the filter by the suit fan would have no carbon dioxide as it reentered the cabin atmosphere.”
My problems with Apollo 13 are: Problems that were shown to be solved on the fly were actually anticipated and even written up as emergency procedures. The astronauts were the cream of the cream test pilots and aviators, their composure never cracked throughout the flight, the actors emoted (I can totally forgive this, it would have been a damned boring movie if Hanks et al delivered their lines in historically accurate monotone). The mid correction burn was depicted as a white knuckle ride with the spacecraft zipping around, the reality was much slower paced.

Otherwise it was pretty solid. I give it 7/10 for accuracy. Few other movies can do as well.

One I thought of is Day One about the Manhattan Project. It's pretty good on historical accuracy especially concerning the individual scientists. But it focused more on logistics and administration than technical details.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Sep 2017, 19:42

the innominate one wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 19:24
That's what I was thinking of. My MS advisor has seen it and he was going on about that scene at one point. I think I looked up the clip and watched it. Thanks, thoreau. I didn't know how accurate or inaccurate that was.

I think exaggerating the racism faced by the women in Hidden Figures is worse, because if a lot of people see the movie, that's how they'll remember the history, not any caveats about movies not being perfectly accurate. I don't deny the women that the story is about faced sexism and racism, but there shouldn't be any need to make things seem worse than they were, they were bad enough.
(I'm not Thoreau, but no big, and you're welcome.)

Eh. I'd have to see the movie. Looking at that History vs. Hollywood thing, most of it seems accurate. The deviations they note don't seem that huge (which women had to run across the campus because there were only colored womens' rooms in certain buildings, etc.) and out of context, I'm not sure how much it really exaggerates the racism. If NASA was better than average for black women in mid-century Virginia, it was probably still kinda shitty.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Sep 2017, 19:43

Kolohe wrote:
19 Sep 2017, 19:33
(But seriously, one of the more obvious liberties that Apollo 13 took was stuff that took place in Florida vs stuff that took place in Texas wound up to be in one vaguely defined location.)
Eh, I've given up on anyone outside of FL or TX keeping us straight.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 19 Sep 2017, 20:11

All you white folk look the same to me.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by thoreau » 20 Sep 2017, 00:04

I remember being bothered when the astronauts in Apollo 13 started arguing with each other and one of them was all "What makes you think you're so smart? They've got geniuses down there on the ground working on this?" Now, maybe in the moment they did get emotional, but I thought it was weird that astronauts would be saying things that amount to "What are you, some kind of rocket scientist?" Because, um, yeah, they basically were.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 20 Sep 2017, 07:45

Were they though? A lot of the early astronauts came in as test pilots from the military, didn't they?
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by pistoffnick » 20 Sep 2017, 09:25

According to the book "Failure Is Not an Option" by Gene Kranz, the astronauts were almost exclusively military fighter pilots chosen for their health and willingness to do stupid shit.

ETA: and possibly their public appeal
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 20 Sep 2017, 09:43

thoreau wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 00:04
I remember being bothered when the astronauts in Apollo 13 started arguing with each other and one of them was all "What makes you think you're so smart? They've got geniuses down there on the ground working on this?" Now, maybe in the moment they did get emotional, but I thought it was weird that astronauts would be saying things that amount to "What are you, some kind of rocket scientist?" Because, um, yeah, they basically were.
I don't think that ever happened.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by thoreau » 20 Sep 2017, 09:51

the innominate one wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 07:45
Were they though? A lot of the early astronauts came in as test pilots from the military, didn't they?
They weren't PhD scientists, but they were military test pilots with pretty strong knowledge of the technology they were using.
Warren wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 09:43
thoreau wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 00:04
I remember being bothered when the astronauts in Apollo 13 started arguing with each other and one of them was all "What makes you think you're so smart? They've got geniuses down there on the ground working on this?" Now, maybe in the moment they did get emotional, but I thought it was weird that astronauts would be saying things that amount to "What are you, some kind of rocket scientist?" Because, um, yeah, they basically were.
I don't think that ever happened.
I distinctly remember a scene where two of the astronauts are arguing over whether they are coming in at the right velocity or have enough fuel or something, and one of them asks the other why he thinks this is an issue if all these smart people on the ground think it's fine.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by the innominate one » 20 Sep 2017, 10:03

I believe Warren is saying the argument didn't happen in reality.

Per Wikipedia, at least one of the crew members had a BS in aeronautics.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 20 Sep 2017, 10:10

the innominate one wrote:
20 Sep 2017, 10:03
I believe Warren is saying the argument didn't happen in reality.
Yes. It's one of the failures of the movie I mentioned above.
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by dbcooper » 23 Sep 2017, 07:22

When did Mamet make a conscious decision to only write stilted dialogue?
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 23 Sep 2017, 19:36

dbcooper wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 07:22
When did Mamet make a conscious decision to only write stilted dialogue?
When he learned A B C
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Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by dhex » 23 Sep 2017, 19:39

hahahah dude your opinion about the written word is about as valid as my yelp reviews of barber shops.
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