The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Music, books, movies, TV, games, hobbies, food, and potent potables. And forum games! Pour a drink, put on your smoking jacket, light a pipe (of whatever), and settle in.
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27695
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The son of

Post by Warren » 06 Oct 2019, 10:04

JasonL wrote:
06 Oct 2019, 09:26
Like stranger danger. Like school shooting. Like drugs are bad. Like sexting. Like terrorism. Like human trafficking. Like opioid crisis. Like the never ending string of things that are bad in some dimension that someone wants to make The Focus of All Our Efforts. Those people who do that need to be mocked - they don’t want “admit this thing entails problems” they want “join me in in my kooky quest to make the world stop every time I mention this because it is end times”.
You should have went with "like abortion is murder".
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 24588
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The son of

Post by Jennifer » 06 Oct 2019, 14:33

JasonL wrote:
06 Oct 2019, 09:26
Like stranger danger. Like school shooting. Like drugs are bad. Like sexting. Like terrorism. Like human trafficking. Like opioid crisis. Like the never ending string of things that are bad in some dimension that someone wants to make The Focus of All Our Efforts. Those people who do that need to be mocked - they don’t want “admit this thing entails problems” they want “join me in in my kooky quest to make the world stop every time I mention this because it is end times”.
Again, I don't deny that various ideas regarding such things deserve mockery -- but, when people go overboard on "solutions" to school shootings (abolish the second amendment, etc.), do you deny that school shootings exist at all (or go Full Alex Jones and insist they're all "false flags")?

Should we mock the "opioid crisis" people by insisting that opioid addiction doesn't exist and only liars and fools claim otherwise?

Back in the day, IIRC, you and I disagreed about what is To Be Done about terrorism -- specifically, you thought the government could/should use torture to get information from suspected terrorists, whereas I opposed it -- but neither I nor any other torture opponent tried mocking the pro-torture people by insisting that "terrorism does not exist." If we did, that would not be "mockery of the cowards who wanted to trash the constitution;" that would be "denial of reality."

The hell of it is, I honestly don't know if you refuse to admit the difference, or if you are genuinely incapable of seeing it.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24460
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by JasonL » 07 Oct 2019, 09:47

I don't remember being pro torture of suspected terrorists. I remember not taking it off the table in an instance of nuclear terrorism / ticking timebomb of wmd significance. I'm not in general pro torture and was not back then. I did not and do not like the lack of effective deterrence against non state actors who may have access to back door support by state treasuries - i.e. states sponsored terrorism executed by non state entities. I'm not pro torture or war to resolve those concerns except in fairly extreme conditions. I used to be more naive that military force could be effective deployed against these kinds of states with outcomes other than horrific, but Iraq put that to bed.

But, in the general instance, you will pound and pound on the idea that "ADMIT ITS A PROBLEM" but that actually doesn't mean anything because "a problem" has an implied magnitude and what you really want is to act like the magnitude deserves some kind of special recognition among other problems. The right answer for school shootings, to me, is yes to ignore them. Do nothing. Act like it's not a problem because the magnitude of risk doesn't come close to warranting the steps being proposed by people who keep harping on DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. Same thing with pretty much every panic.

People are kind of poop at identifying real risk and tradeoffs. Global Climate is a set of problems. Low growth and global poverty is another set of problems. There are levers that actually, demonstrably improve global poverty and yes those may make carbon related climate issue worse. There, to date, are not really any levers to pull on the climate - again I'm a very large carbon tax guy and have been for a decade, but I can't make China do it too, and I don't actually have any reliable evidence it will do anything. I choose that option because taxing stuff other than carbon is worse than taxing carbon if you think carbon is "a problem".

So while some people bounce around from end times because of peak oil to end times because of climate to end times because of trump or end times because of moral decay to end times because of guns - very little is actually end times and the people screaming and gnashing teeth are almost always wrong in the thing that matters - the magnitude of risk and the costs we should be willing to pay to make their panic subside.

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27695
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 07 Oct 2019, 09:54

JasonL wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 09:47
I don't remember being pro torture of suspected terrorists. I remember not taking it off the table in an instance of nuclear terrorism / ticking timebomb of wmd significance.
FTR I consider this to be a pro torture position.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24460
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by JasonL » 07 Oct 2019, 09:55

Warren wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 09:54
JasonL wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 09:47
I don't remember being pro torture of suspected terrorists. I remember not taking it off the table in an instance of nuclear terrorism / ticking timebomb of wmd significance.
FTR I consider this to be a pro torture position.
That's fine.

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 16250
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Aresen » 07 Oct 2019, 12:27

JasonL wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 09:47
I don't remember being pro torture of suspected terrorists. I remember not taking it off the table in an instance of nuclear terrorism / ticking timebomb of wmd significance.
The 'ticking nuke' scenario has never existed and probably never will exist. How likely is it that you are going to find a single person - or a small group of people - with critical knowledge just days/hours before a nuke or other WMD is used?

Use 9/11 as an example: Suppose you had found out Mohammed Atta & co were in the US on 9/10. What possible information could you have gained more than "Watch them closely and, if they try to board a plane, detain them?"
There, to date, are not really any levers to pull on the climate - again I'm a very large carbon tax guy and have been for a decade, but I can't make China do it too, and I don't actually have any reliable evidence it will do anything. I choose that option because taxing stuff other than carbon is worse than taxing carbon if you think carbon is "a problem".
I go for the carbon tax for the feature that it makes alternative energy sources relatively more attractive. No other reason. I really despise the greenie attempts to direct the funds into their pet projects like wind and solar farms, which I suspect will do more harm than good and will definitely be fraught with cronyism and fraud.
So while some people bounce around from end times because of peak oil to end times because of climate to end times because of trump or end times because of moral decay to end times because of guns - very little is actually end times and the people screaming and gnashing teeth are almost always wrong in the thing that matters - the magnitude of risk and the costs we should be willing to pay to make their panic subside.
The endless 'crises' that people identify as 'requiring solutions' (government solutions) convince me and many others that most crises are masks for power-grabs.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 24588
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Jennifer » 07 Oct 2019, 15:34

JasonL wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 09:47

But, in the general instance, you will pound and pound on the idea that "ADMIT ITS A PROBLEM" but that actually doesn't mean anything because "a problem" has an implied magnitude and what you really want is to act like the magnitude deserves some kind of special recognition among other problems. The right answer for school shootings, to me, is yes to ignore them. Do nothing. Act like it's not a problem because the magnitude of risk doesn't come close to warranting the steps being proposed by people who keep harping on DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM.
Which, again, is entirely different from "deny that school shootings exist at all--nobody died at Sandy Hook, nobody died at Columbine, it's all false flags and crisis actors and UN plots to confiscate everybody's guns."
Global Climate is a set of problems. Low growth and global poverty is another set of problems. There are levers that actually, demonstrably improve global poverty and yes those may make carbon related climate issue worse. There, to date, are not really any levers to pull on the climate - again I'm a very large carbon tax guy and have been for a decade, but I can't make China do it too, and I don't actually have any reliable evidence it will do anything. I choose that option because taxing stuff other than carbon is worse than taxing carbon if you think carbon is "a problem".
See, now, THIS is a nuanced way to look at the issue -- "Yes, the changing climate is causing problems, but on the other hand we must take care not to offer 'solutions' that cause more and worse problems" -- but that is not what the South Park boys said in their first Manbearpig episode. What they said was "The climate's not changing at all, the climate is not a problem or a set of problems, and anyone claiming otherwise is either a liar or a fool."
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 24460
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by JasonL » 07 Oct 2019, 16:22

Whether is central theme of manbearpig is that it doesn't exist or that al gore was hyperventilating about it I guess is a matter of perspective. They felt the need I guess to do a corrective and they rarely do that, but I don't think it's super important one way or the other because I always saw the joke as operating at the expense of sanctimonious hyperventilation, which still works in 2019. I frankly love how much liberal people hate that show and blame it for exacerbating all manner of social ills and I hope they keep right on doing that. An apology tour would be unnecessary and unfortunate. Notably, nobody asks Jon Stewart or other Comedians in Chief of the DNC to apologize for jokes very often.

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 24588
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Jennifer » 07 Oct 2019, 22:08

JasonL wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 16:22
Whether is central theme of manbearpig is that it doesn't exist or that al gore was hyperventilating about it I guess is a matter of perspective.
You guessed wrong. (Remember, too, that Manbearpig appeared again as of the completely made-up villains in the "Imaginationland" multi-part episode.)
An apology tour would be unnecessary and unfortunate.
I agree. Did anyone here suggest otherwise? If so, I must not have seen that post.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 24588
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Jennifer » 07 Oct 2019, 23:15

Quelle surprise: after last week's episode criticizing Chinese censorship (and other, even more massive human-rights violations), China has scrubbed all references to South Park off its internet.

https://reason.com/2019/10/07/china-sou ... ensorship/
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Andrew
Posts: 6772
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 21:52
Location: Vale of Eternal Fire

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Andrew » 20 Oct 2019, 23:20

Has anyone watched El Camino? Any spoiler-free comments? I'm not sure I really care about of the remaining characters in the Breaking Bad world. I like Better Call Saul because I like Bob Odenkirk and it has Mike, but a post BB show won't have either of them.
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

The sun only shines when a woman is being sexually abused. - Warren

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 28594
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by thoreau » 20 Oct 2019, 23:35

Andrew wrote:
20 Oct 2019, 23:20
Has anyone watched El Camino? Any spoiler-free comments? I'm not sure I really care about of the remaining characters in the Breaking Bad world. I like Better Call Saul because I like Bob Odenkirk and it has Mike, but a post BB show won't have either of them.
I think of it as a decent enough Jesse-centric Breaking Bad episode. They try a little too hard to work in more flashbacks than they need, but the core story is fine enough, and Jesse does interesting stuff.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

User avatar
JD
Posts: 11272
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by JD » 21 Oct 2019, 10:19

Spent a lazy Sunday watching Simon Pegg's Cornetto Trilogy yesterday - Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, and World's End. HF used to be my favorite, but SotD has really grown on me. I didn't like WE as much the first time, but it's grown on me too. It's a tougher watch because it's less of a comedy and more of a drama than the other two, and a rather depressing drama at that, but the filmmaking is really strong.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 1300
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by dead_elvis » 21 Oct 2019, 17:05

Andrew wrote:
20 Oct 2019, 23:20
Has anyone watched El Camino? Any spoiler-free comments? I'm not sure I really care about of the remaining characters in the Breaking Bad world. I like Better Call Saul because I like Bob Odenkirk and it has Mike, but a post BB show won't have either of them.
It's basically fan service. It doesn't really tell us anything we needed to know, but if you wanted to spend more time with Jesse and Todd with a dose of Badger and Skinny Pete and Robert Forster it's decent.
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 19146
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 21 Oct 2019, 17:59

The silence you are experiencing over the first episode of Watchmen is entirely deserved.

User avatar
Painboy
Posts: 4213
Joined: 18 Feb 2013, 11:33
Location: Seattle

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Painboy » 21 Oct 2019, 18:35

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 17:59
The silence you are experiencing over the first episode of Watchmen is entirely deserved.
As there isn't anything worth saying about it?

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 19146
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 21 Oct 2019, 19:50

Painboy wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 18:35
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 17:59
The silence you are experiencing over the first episode of Watchmen is entirely deserved.
As there isn't anything worth saying about it?
Pretty much. I mean, I'll probably watch a couple more episodes, let it develop a bit. Obviously, there's a story line [SPOILER] with the boy who survives the Tulsa Riots at the beginning and shows up as an old man in the last scene that's a nice hook, but there wasn't much that grabbed me in the hour in between.

User avatar
Painboy
Posts: 4213
Joined: 18 Feb 2013, 11:33
Location: Seattle

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Painboy » 21 Oct 2019, 22:02

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 19:50
Painboy wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 18:35
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
21 Oct 2019, 17:59
The silence you are experiencing over the first episode of Watchmen is entirely deserved.
As there isn't anything worth saying about it?
Pretty much. I mean, I'll probably watch a couple more episodes, let it develop a bit. Obviously, there's a story line [SPOILER] with the boy who survives the Tulsa Riots at the beginning and shows up as an old man in the last scene that's a nice hook, but there wasn't much that grabbed me in the hour in between.
I've read some review blurbs here and there. A good number of them use the term "relevant" which these days has become a word that immediately makes me suspicious of the person's opinion. Of course maybe it's just become a go to word for critics when they want to sound smart, kind of like when sports people throw the word "regression" around.

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27695
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 27 Oct 2019, 20:08

Rewatched Bottle Shock. The first time I watched it, I was focused on the A story. But this time I was lapping up the Alan Rickman/Denis Farina B story like it was ice cream.

It may be the case that whatever Rickman movie I saw last, is the one I think is his best performance. So I'll not make that claim now. However, if you're fan of his other stuff and haven't seen Bottle Shock , or if you have and don't rate it as vintage Rickman (swidt?), I highly suggest viewing it at your earliest convenience.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 27695
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: The son of "What the hell are YOU staring at?"

Post by Warren » 12 Nov 2019, 10:02

An offhand remark in one of DAR's FB posts caused me to google "Dalton Trumbo", whereupon I found out there was a movie with an A-list cast made about him not too long ago which I had never seen. So I watched it. Half way through I realized I had heard of Dalton Trumbo. Steve martin wrote/spoke about the man, and the customs and ambiance of his household, from when he was dating his daughter in the 60's, and I paused the movie to listen to the relevant chapter of the audible version of Born Standing Up.

I yield to no man in my detestation of communism and collectivism of all stripes. But my animosity stems from being so very jealous of my freedoms, and I'll have no truck with any curtailing of my freedoms in the name of combating their enemies. I feel as though I am reasonably well informed on the Mccarthy era and the un-American activities of the House Committee On Un-American Activities. I view them as shameful betrayals of our American birth-right bequeathed to us in our founding documents. I worry about the current state of affairs. I don't know how you would go about counting bodies for comparison, but my sense is that Identity Politics is beginning to rival the 2nd Red Scare. Back then the House Committee was at least the head of the beast, but now freedom is being assaulted by a swarm. I still think it more likely that not, that this is unsustainable and will consume itself long before it does any long lasting damage to The Republic. But I worry. History shows people are seduced by hate and oppression in times of strife. And I remain convinced that the collapse of the USD is inevitable. Then again, just easier to follow path of Alfred E Neuman.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests