DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

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the innominate one
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by the innominate one » 13 Sep 2017, 13:19

Warren wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 13:02
the innominate one wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 12:50
Warren wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 12:39
the innominate one wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 10:56
If IR is used, maybe a hard copy photo won't work, but I wouldn't be surprised if a photo on another phone screen would do the trick.
Huh?
Huh?
How is a photo on another phone going to mimic the thermal pattern of your face?


The devil is in the details. Does it actually measure a thermal pattern with variance in the image or does it merely measure that there is warmth/IR emission at those 24 points you thought you heard a reporter say? If the latter, a photo on a phone might do the trick. If the former, I'm sure someone's working on how to make that happen.

Even if it measures a pattern, is the pattern specific to you? Or is it general to the size and shape of your face? Will it work equally well in summer and winter? Indoors and outdoors? In air conditioning or if the heat is on? What if you have a fever?
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Warren
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Warren » 13 Sep 2017, 13:28

the innominate one wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 13:19
Warren wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 13:02
the innominate one wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 12:50
Warren wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 12:39
the innominate one wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 10:56
If IR is used, maybe a hard copy photo won't work, but I wouldn't be surprised if a photo on another phone screen would do the trick.
Huh?
Huh?
How is a photo on another phone going to mimic the thermal pattern of your face?


The devil is in the details. Does it actually measure a thermal pattern with variance in the image or does it merely measure that there is warmth/IR emission at those 24 points you thought you heard a reporter say? If the latter, a photo on a phone might do the trick. If the former, I'm sure someone's working on how to make that happen.

Even if it measures a pattern, is the pattern specific to you? Or is it general to the size and shape of your face? Will it work equally well in summer and winter? Indoors and outdoors? In air conditioning or if the heat is on? What if you have a fever?
Good questions. I decided to google.
Apple’s system is significantly more sophisticated, relying on dual cameras and an array of projected infrared dots to detect depth. Apple’s marketing video showed off three-dimensional masks used to test Face ID against spoofing attacks, and the simple fact of having a motion-capable camera should make it easier to spot a false face at work.
So it's actually projecting IR dots to make a 3-D image. Which would thwart any 2-D photo.
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the innominate one
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by the innominate one » 13 Sep 2017, 13:31

For the moment. Someone is going to figure out a way to make the virtual image on one phone appear 3D to the sensors on another phone. Interesting, though.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by thoreau » 13 Sep 2017, 13:33

Does the iPhone camera even detect thermal IR? I doubt it. Probably just near IR. There I can see people having more distinctive signatures, but who knows how makeup might affect it. Or rashes or acne? Or sweat? (Water absorbs IR.) We tend not to think about the near IR signatures of our skin because we can't see them, but that doesn't mean they're not there. The question is how stable they are.
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the innominate one
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by the innominate one » 13 Sep 2017, 13:40

I need to be able to unlock my phone using facial recognition while in blackface.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Warren » 13 Sep 2017, 13:42

How the iPhone X's facial recognition technology works
The system relies on an advanced suite of tech packed into the front of the new phone. It involves an infrared camera, flood illuminator, front camera, dot projector, proximity sensor and ambient light sensor.

The dot projector beams out more than 30,000 invisible infrared dots, and the infrared camera captures an image.
Face ID is sophisticated enough to work in the dark, and to learn your face under different circumstances -- so go ahead and wear those funky glasses or grow that hipster beard.
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the innominate one
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by the innominate one » 13 Sep 2017, 13:52

Anything about blackface? Or kabuki makeup?
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by JasonL » 13 Sep 2017, 15:41

Noh

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JD
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by JD » 13 Sep 2017, 16:11

I'm a bit more skeptical of how it will actually work out in practice. According to the press releases, it can neither be fooled into a false positive by a photo or a mask, nor into a false negative by glasses, facial hair, etc. We shall see.

One comment I've seen actually pointed out the potential legal impacts - there's an ongoing fight over whether the police can force you to turn over your password vs. turning over your fingerprint etc., but what if you merely had to look at something? Could they compel you to do that? They could certainly easily trick you into it...

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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by dbcooper » 13 Sep 2017, 16:46

Did they remove the fingerprint sensor from the X?
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Warren » 13 Sep 2017, 17:50

dbcooper wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 16:46
Did they remove the fingerprint sensor from the X?
I believe so. The whole front face is all screen, save for a slim bar at the top where all those long range scanners are.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by lunchstealer » 13 Sep 2017, 20:17

thoreau wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 13:33
Does the iPhone camera even detect thermal IR? I doubt it. Probably just near IR. There I can see people having more distinctive signatures, but who knows how makeup might affect it. Or rashes or acne? Or sweat? (Water absorbs IR.) We tend not to think about the near IR signatures of our skin because we can't see them, but that doesn't mean they're not there. The question is how stable they are.
Fun fact: Vegetation is even more reflective in near IR than in green. The grass is always nearirer on the other side of the fence.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by lunchstealer » 13 Sep 2017, 20:19

As long as they do the thing they're supposedly doing in the new iOS release for the 7, allowing you to temporarily disable touch-ID by clicking the lock button five times or something like that, you're golden.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Eric the .5b » 13 Sep 2017, 20:36

Highway wrote:
12 Sep 2017, 20:27
The march of "features that noone ever asked for or wanted, but the devs thought were cool anyway" continues.
No, some arm-waving project manager put it on the list.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Sandy » 13 Sep 2017, 23:30

JasonL wrote:Noh
Win.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Warren » 16 Sep 2017, 15:14

Sandy wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 23:30
JasonL wrote:Noh
Win.
*slaps Sandy's finger* Don't point, it's rude.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Ellie » 16 Sep 2017, 23:11

JasonL wrote:
13 Sep 2017, 15:41
Noh
:D :D :D
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Mo » 17 Sep 2017, 20:35

Because they are allowing Apple Pay to work with it, I suspect that it will work as reliably as Touch ID. I know the folks in our enterprise security group and they don't fuck around*. Also, I believe you will be able to disable the facial scanning by pushing the two side button simultaneously, so too bad so sad cops.

* For example, you can only unlock your Samsung phone with it, but not use Samsung's facial recognition to pay. This does not mean that it's unbreakable, just that it's difficult to crack without significant resources.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by dbcooper » 21 Sep 2017, 18:54

Yearly reminder that the Nobel Chemistry prize should go to John Goodenough and Stanley Whittingham for lithium-ion batteries.
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the innominate one
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by the innominate one » 21 Sep 2017, 23:22

Presumably he's good enough to be awarded the Nobel.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by lunchstealer » 21 Sep 2017, 23:32

the innominate one wrote:
21 Sep 2017, 23:22
Presumably he's good enough to be awarded the Nobel.
I heard he had adequacy issues.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by thoreau » 22 Sep 2017, 00:11

The problem with the chemistry prize is that the chemists have to share it with biology and solid-state physics. So you only get a prize for stuff that chemists in chemistry departments are interested in once every few years.
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the innominate one
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by the innominate one » 27 Sep 2017, 22:37

New detection of gravitational waves including detection by the new VIRGO detector. Insert joke about no longer being a virgin here. Insert joke about inserting here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/scie ... virgo.html
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -E Benn

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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Sandy » 28 Sep 2017, 04:18

Now we know where dubstep came from.
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Re: DB's absolutely amazing sci/tech thread

Post by Kolohe » 28 Sep 2017, 08:08

I thought black holes were associated with Seattle grunge?
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