Music for the Masses

Music, books, movies, TV, games, hobbies, food, and potent potables. And forum games! Pour a drink, put on your smoking jacket, light a pipe (of whatever), and settle in.
User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18021
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 10 Aug 2017, 05:36

I don't anything about this band but this is quite good:

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 12523
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Eric the .5b » 10 Aug 2017, 20:29

dbcooper wrote:
10 Aug 2017, 05:36
I don't anything about this band but this is quite good:

I'd liked this track from them:

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18021
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 12 Aug 2017, 04:18

Image
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24803
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Warren » 12 Aug 2017, 22:58

Not bad db. Though if I never see Pepe again it will be too soon. Also, I think Shitty Politics/Doesn't give a fuck belong to both sides.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18021
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 16 Aug 2017, 23:44

Image
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 966
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dead_elvis » 18 Aug 2017, 23:34

I recognize that from the Terran Trade Authority book.
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 9074
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by nicole » 25 Aug 2017, 10:18

TSwift seems really into making lists of men's names.

Also the new song everyone hates is the first one of hers I've kinda liked.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 12998
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Highway » 25 Aug 2017, 13:06

nicole wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 10:18
TSwift seems really into making lists of men's names.

Also the new song everyone hates is the first one of hers I've kinda liked.
I dislike the chorus. Total let down. I've never really listened to her music before, but I don't like that kind of flow where you build up to the chorus and then just nothing it. Rest of the song isn't bad.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 12998
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Highway » 25 Aug 2017, 13:08

Of course, I'm more excited about a new album by The Darkness (which is pretty much exactly like their other albums, going from this song:)
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 9074
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by nicole » 25 Aug 2017, 14:06

Highway wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 13:06
nicole wrote:
25 Aug 2017, 10:18
TSwift seems really into making lists of men's names.

Also the new song everyone hates is the first one of hers I've kinda liked.
I dislike the chorus. Total let down. I've never really listened to her music before, but I don't like that kind of flow where you build up to the chorus and then just nothing it. Rest of the song isn't bad.
That's what I like about it. I'm too sexy.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
Sandy
Posts: 9984
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 18:03
Location: In the hearts of little children, clogging their arteries.

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Sandy » 26 Aug 2017, 17:01

Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26484
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by thoreau » 28 Aug 2017, 11:55

Pop music deconstructed in excruciating detail.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 966
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dead_elvis » 28 Aug 2017, 16:21

Except for the Loudness issue, I'd say there's quite a bit of bunk there. He commits the usual sin of comparing contemporary bubble gum pop not to the bubble gum pop of yore (check the charts from when music was supposedly better, plenty of forgettable crap there), but to the records that are classics-in-hindsight. Also completely ignores that a lot of great contemporary music of the sort that might be more comparable to Sgt. Peppers isn't going the traditional route that would lead to top40 success, whatever that even means anymore nowadays.

I also think his "brainwashing" bit is giving a little too much credit contemporarily, while ignoring that it *did* happen back in the day, in the exact way he describes. But with the older music he doesn't call it brainwashing, he describes it as a positive ritual that gets you listening to the subtleties and nuances (but he won't extend that same courtesy to contemporary pop). I grew fond of a ton of mediocre music because if I dropped a couple months of allowances on an album on the strength of a couple songs, it didn't matter that the rest was filler, damn it I was going to get my money's worth.
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 12523
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Eric the .5b » 28 Aug 2017, 16:30

thoreau wrote:
28 Aug 2017, 11:55
Pop music deconstructed in excruciating detail.
No offense intended, Thoreau, but I started ripping into this video as I watched it. :) It kept me awake in this gloomy, rainy weather, though.

I'm inclined to sympathize with the video just from the title. I'm at damn near git off mah lawn and learn to sing! levels of hostility to a lot of pop music. I'm down for dissection. But, precisely 59 seconds in, I'm already rolling my eyes.

If I were trying, I'm not sure how I could cherry-pick a more abusive example. From the greatest album EVAR as decreed by The High Council of Self-Important Baby Boomers to a song by one of the most broadly-mocked pop stars in modern history? Really?

Note that in 1967, the same year Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band came out, "I'm a Believer" and "Daydream Believer" by the Monkees, "Happy Together" by the Turtles, "Windy" by the Association, and "To Sir, With Love" by Lulu all hit #1 on the Billboard Hot 100. Charming, but not exactly brilliant, mind-blowing tracks. Remember these songs.

*plays further*

Led Zeppelin vs. Lady Gaga? The category failure is real, as the kids say.

Science? Algorithms? Timbre? Masturbation about all the instruments in an orchestra being used in a *gasp* pop song like "A Day in the Life"? (Apparently "My Heart Will Go On" and "November Rain" are more scientifically worthy than John Lennon's "Imagine".)

So, the music of one genre in an era sounds similar to the rest of the music in that era and genre. This is a revelation? I mean, think back to that list of 1967 songs I gave above. Not a stylistically diverse bunch, there, and they conspicuously use the same small, standard set of instruments, something that oddly doesn't bother this guy.

Is the Millennial Whoop worse than songs full of repetitions of "baby"? Because we know damn well music fans have always been about the familiarity and repetition.

(Also, tangentially: damn, this guy is both so patronizing and has such a punchable face. And I realize I'm 5:41 into a 20 minute video. Can I make it?)

Flesch–Kincaid measurements of lyrics from the last ten years drop from grade level 3.5 to 2.5? Well, that's deeply meaningful for the argument he's pushing. (Hmm, I wonder what happens if I take the lyrics for "A Day in the Life", add appropriate punctuation, and run them through a Flesch-Kincaid check. Grade level 2.5? Fancy that!)

Comparing Bob Dylan (and Morrissey!?) to...Duck Sauce. Oh, fuck you, dude. "Yummy Yummy Yummy" came out the year after SPLHCB.

Holy shit, something that might actually be a worthwhile point! Songwriters!

And then he wanders off. "The vast majority of pop music", except what he means by pop music is pretty much undefined, something that's simply stupid with the market segmentation over the last fifty years. I mean, look at his comparisons—great, even challenging figures of folk, pop, and rock versus modern examples that are almost all (so far) dance pop aimed at young white women under 25.

"They've written songs for every musical act you've grown up with, if you're under 30 years old". At least if you're a young suburbanite scared of the broad categories of rock, metal, dance, country, or any form of music made by black people. And yeah, that's a notable thing. The guy's been yammering and throwing up images about the last fifty years of pop music for 9 minutes, now, and I haven't seen a single black face.

"There are still popular, chart-topping musicians that write the entirety of their own music, today, but you have to look really, really hard." Well, putting aside the stupidity (you don't have to look "really, really hard" to find what's popular and chart-topping), let's be real. Bands and singers recording songs by songwriters has always been common, especially for the most popular acts. Otherwise, singer-songwriters wouldn't be a thing that gets called out!

Attention spans and blather about what "research shows" and the value of how music listeners back in the day had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to get their music. And going on about "so-called 'hooks'" (actual quote!) that musicians insidiously stuff in songs nowadays. And they put them early in songs, the bastards!

Maybe he's got a point? Play this song and just soak in the cynical, streaming-savvy, punchy-sounding modernity.

Ah, and he's only the hundred-thousandth person in the last fifteen years to complain about the loudness war and dynamic range over-compression. But, at least he's chiming in on something real, after only half the video.

Ah, back in the fifties, when music was a gleaming, perfect meritocracy. Payola what?

"They simply take a pretty young face, usually from a TV talent show, and simply force the public to like them by brainwashing them." OFFS. Then ensues the horrific revelation that music involves marketing. Which was invented in 2002, of course. Mere-exposure effect and asking how much you enjoyed a song the first time vs. subsequent listens, as part of the brainwashing mechanism. And yet, just minutes ago, he was going on about how important and valuable it was in the olden days to listen to a new album again and again and again.

Did he not read his own script before making this video? These arguments are stupidly muddled and contradictory. Modern songs are engineered to be familiar and instantly appealing lest people choose to effortlessly listen to something else, yet they're "repulsive" on first listen and have to be forced on you repeatedly so that you think you like them. Which is it?

"We all have different musical tastes, but they are subtly being overridden...by the brainwashing activities of big record labels." Even if true, it seems to be only true if all you listen to is, again, music aimed solely at young white women in the suburbs. Which goes back to my complaint about his failure to define what he means by "pop" or to acknowledge the huge diversification and separation of genres in the last fifty years. And Hell, I've said young white suburban women a couple of times, but most of them listen to a broader range of music than this guy acknowledges in the modern era.

Oh, noes. There are great bands out there that are different. But they aren't mainstream. Some of them won't even get signed, or not by major labels! They won't get hugely famous! What a shocking and unprecedented phenomena, of independent artists, or of alternative music scenes different from the mainstream...

And patronizing closer where he seems to try not to come off as a patronizing fuck.

...Well, that was something. While I enjoyed slagging it, I'd like to see a proper dissection of the sins of modern pop as written by someone with a clue and both hands on the keyboard at all times.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

User avatar
Eric the .5b
Posts: 12523
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:29

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Eric the .5b » 28 Aug 2017, 16:37

Also, if you're going to say thing about modern songs with their Millennial whoops with maximum prissiness, pronounce your damn th's.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26484
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by thoreau » 28 Aug 2017, 17:45

I enjoyed the dissection more than the conclusions. And I happen to agree that Lady Gaga is way more sophisticated than most pop out there. Whether or not one personally enjoys it on an aesthetic level, she's put a lot more creativity into it than some random auto-tuned kid singing something written by a Scandinavian pop song assembly line.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Fin Fang Foom
Posts: 9539
Joined: 05 May 2010, 22:39

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 28 Aug 2017, 23:41

"Brainwashing by big labels?" Is he high? The labels are so much weaker than they were at their peak. They are having to scramble to find new business models.

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 15470
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dhex » 29 Aug 2017, 08:03

Bro daps across space and time to Eric b sans rakim
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

User avatar
tr0g
Posts: 6700
Joined: 11 May 2011, 10:21
Location: At the shop

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by tr0g » 29 Aug 2017, 14:46

I'm always down for a quality bitch-slap. Good job, 1/2b!
Yeah but how can you tell at a glance which junk a raccoon is packing? Also, gay raccoons? - Hugh Akston
Nothing you can say is as important as the existence of a functioning marketplace of ideas, go set yourself on fire. - JasonL

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 9074
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by nicole » 29 Aug 2017, 14:47

Tswift video is a huge disappointment because once again WHO IS LETTING THESE PEOPLE BECOME POP STARS WHEN THEY CAN'T EVEN DANCE
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 22734
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by JasonL » 29 Aug 2017, 15:02

We crossed that bridge long ago.

User avatar
nicole
Posts: 9074
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 16:28

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by nicole » 29 Aug 2017, 15:17

Well, I hadn't known it about Taylor. Bitch, you don't get to start your video like Thriller and end it like Beyonce but only dance for 7 seconds.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"This is why I carry a shoehorn.” -jadagul

User avatar
dead_elvis
Posts: 966
Joined: 01 May 2010, 15:26

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dead_elvis » 29 Aug 2017, 20:34

thoreau wrote:
28 Aug 2017, 17:45
I enjoyed the dissection more than the conclusions.
I really admire what goes into a well crafted pop song, even if it's "just" pop. To come up with a song that has that special sumpn' sumpn' using only the most simple elements is quite a talent, like cooking a great meal with only 3 ingredients, or trying to write poetry with 3/4ths of your vocabulary off limits.* Just a harmonic or rhythmic twist here and a well made arrangement there and a clever lyric make the difference between something pedestrian and something ear catchingly special, while trying too much all at once results in something that doesn't work.

*Or maybe more the opposite. How to make something sound simple using all the ingredients. Like, you have every exotic meat and spice in the world but your dinner guest with an unadventurous palate wants a hamburger. How to make that burger still what they would call a burger while making it stand out is quite challenging.
"Never forget: a war on undocumented immigrants by necessity is a war on all of our freedoms of association and movement."

User avatar
dhex
Posts: 15470
Joined: 05 May 2010, 16:05
Location: 'murica

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dhex » 14 Sep 2017, 07:22

The new national album has some real dogshit on it.
"I do wear my New Balance tennis shoes when I'm wearing cargo shorts, though, because truth in advertising." - lunch

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18021
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: Music for the Masses

Post by dbcooper » 14 Sep 2017, 07:34

dhex wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 07:22
The new national album has some real dogshit on it.
You need to publish your parodies.

My friend (guitar player from NZ's biggest band) would probably love to record them.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests