What's New at the Bijou?

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JD
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by JD »

I saw VHYes at the theater the other day. It's a really hard movie to categorize, kind of a drama-comedy-horror in the form of an homage to 1980s TV/video culture. If I had to describe the plot, it would be something like "A 12-year-old boy becomes fascinated with his family's camcorder and accidentally records stuff over his parents' wedding videotape", but mostly it's a bunch of bits and pieces from his life, his parents' wedding, and TV shows that combine to form a picture of his family and his world. It's kind of amateurish but really funny.
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nicole
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by nicole »

Wait...do people not like the David Lynch Dune?

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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by lunchstealer »

nicole wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 18:41 Wait...do people not like the David Lynch Dune?

Well, it's super pretentious, but then so is the book so ... it's a tough call. I'm not into it, and kinda feel like the SyFy miniseries was a better sci-fi series, but Lynch's is probably better art.
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Painboy
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Painboy »

nicole wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 18:41 Wait...do people not like the David Lynch Dune?

I liked it, but it was a bomb at the box office and I'm not sure it ever quite got cult status. Purists of the book didn't like some of the changes, especially the sound weapons. I hadn't read the book when I originally saw it so it was new and cool for me. I especially liked the visual design. It's a bit like Blade Runner in a way. The actual movie is kind of scattershot but the look and ideas hold it upright.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

nicole wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 18:41 Wait...do people not like the David Lynch Dune?

First, Lynch is very hit or miss with me and this one missed by a mile. It was simultaneously gaudy and stiff, choppy and yet managed to drag and did a bad job of adapting the book, which is what most fans of Herbert wanted, not Lynche's febrile imagination of the story as if he'd written it while high on spice.

I agree the miniseries did a better job. That said, there really hasn't been a good job yet. There are tons of classic science fiction novels that have just been waiting for movie technology to be able to portray them well but, alas, most of them are still collecting dust on studeo shelves.
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 21:08
nicole wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 18:41 Wait...do people not like the David Lynch Dune?

First, Lynch is very hit or miss with me and this one missed by a mile. It was simultaneously gaudy and stiff, choppy and yet managed to drag and did a bad job of adapting the book, which is what most fans of Herbert wanted, not Lynche's febrile imagination of the story as if he'd written it while high on spice.

I agree the miniseries did a better job. That said, there really hasn't been a good job yet. There are tons of classic science fiction novels that have just been waiting for movie technology to be able to portray them well but, alas, most of them are still collecting dust on studeo shelves.
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There hasn't been a screen adaptation of Dune that isn't garbage. Given that most of the action takes place between the characters ears, I think it unlikely there ever will be. Even though I'd truly love to see it.
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Jasper
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Jasper »

Warren wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 23:49
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 21:08
nicole wrote: 14 Apr 2020, 18:41 Wait...do people not like the David Lynch Dune?

First, Lynch is very hit or miss with me and this one missed by a mile. It was simultaneously gaudy and stiff, choppy and yet managed to drag and did a bad job of adapting the book, which is what most fans of Herbert wanted, not Lynche's febrile imagination of the story as if he'd written it while high on spice.

I agree the miniseries did a better job. That said, there really hasn't been a good job yet. There are tons of classic science fiction novels that have just been waiting for movie technology to be able to portray them well but, alas, most of them are still collecting dust on studeo shelves.
Cosign

There hasn't been a screen adaptation of Dune that isn't garbage. Given that most of the action takes place between the characters ears, I think it unlikely there ever will be. Even though I'd truly love to see it.
Yeah, I can cosign as well, but I'm also a fan of Lynch's Dune.

I've yet to see Jodorowsky's Dune documentary.
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

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Jasper wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 08:59 I've yet to see Jodorowsky's Dune documentary.
I rarely watch documentaries, but I enjoyed it. When you see the illustrated script pages by Moebius, it becomes apparent how much influence those ideas had in scifi movies for the next decade.
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Warren
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

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Jasper wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 08:59 I've yet to see Jodorowsky's Dune documentary.
I've seen it. You needn't bother. Jodorowsky wanted to remake Dune as a Christ allegory. Like, even more unambiguous than it already is. If you're really interested in his vision, when the movie fell through it was made in comic book form.

ETA
Andrew wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:07 I rarely watch documentaries, but I enjoyed it. When you see the illustrated script pages by Moebius, it becomes apparent how much influence those ideas had in scifi movies for the next decade.
Yeah, the artwork was exceptional. I'm not sure it's worth sitting through the whole doc for it.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Warren wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:10
Jasper wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 08:59 I've yet to see Jodorowsky's Dune documentary.
I've seen it. You needn't bother. Jodorowsky wanted to remake Dune as a Christ allegory. Like, even more unambiguous than it already is. If you're really interested in his vision, when the movie fell through it was made in comic book form.

ETA
Andrew wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:07 I rarely watch documentaries, but I enjoyed it. When you see the illustrated script pages by Moebius, it becomes apparent how much influence those ideas had in scifi movies for the next decade.
Yeah, the artwork was exceptional. I'm not sure it's worth sitting through the whole doc for it.
You see it as a Christ allegory? I think Mohammad is the far more likely underlying allusion.
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Warren
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 11:59
Warren wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:10
Jasper wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 08:59 I've yet to see Jodorowsky's Dune documentary.
I've seen it. You needn't bother. Jodorowsky wanted to remake Dune as a Christ allegory. Like, even more unambiguous than it already is. If you're really interested in his vision, when the movie fell through it was made in comic book form.

ETA
Andrew wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:07 I rarely watch documentaries, but I enjoyed it. When you see the illustrated script pages by Moebius, it becomes apparent how much influence those ideas had in scifi movies for the next decade.
Yeah, the artwork was exceptional. I'm not sure it's worth sitting through the whole doc for it.
You see it as a Christ allegory? I think Mohammad is the far more likely underlying allusion.
For the book yes.
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Painboy
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Painboy »

I think the most perplexing thing about Dune is this constant need to make it a film (or other media). I mean the book was good but it certainly had its clunky parts. Nor is it heralded as some great series. Most people seem to regard the following books as little more than an afterthought.

Also isn't the story basically a space version of Big Whitey? I know Avatar cleaned up at the box office with that trope a while ago but I thought that kind of stuff wasn't in vogue anymore.
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JasonL
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

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Eh I think nerddom consensus is Dune is a canonical top 5 or 10 at least. Foundation, Dune they are always in lists together.
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Painboy
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Painboy »

JasonL wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 13:24 Eh I think nerddom consensus is Dune is a canonical top 5 or 10 at least. Foundation, Dune they are always in lists together.
Another one I don't quite get the appeal of.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Painboy wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 13:28
JasonL wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 13:24 Eh I think nerddom consensus is Dune is a canonical top 5 or 10 at least. Foundation, Dune they are always in lists together.
Another one I don't quite get the appeal of.
It was epic in scope and it more or less marked the end of the Masters of Science Fiction (e.g., Heinlein, Asimov, Clark, etc.) era. It dealt with ecology around the same time the Green movement was getting started. It sold well both in and outside science fiction circles and is probably the best-selling single sci-fi novel of all time; certain in the top two or three at this point.

I mean, much of it is just time and place, Dune hit the zeitgeist the way, for different reasons, Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness did a few years later. It's a chicken/egg argument at some point, but these mid to late sixties novels not only broadened the audience for science fiction, they marked the end of academia's scorn and indifference to the genre.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Eric the .5b »

I'd certainly rather reread Dune than many canonized science fiction classics.

(I can't promise I'd reread further, and if so, no further than God-Emperor.)
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by lunchstealer »

Warren wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 12:02
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 11:59
Warren wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:10
Jasper wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 08:59 I've yet to see Jodorowsky's Dune documentary.
I've seen it. You needn't bother. Jodorowsky wanted to remake Dune as a Christ allegory. Like, even more unambiguous than it already is. If you're really interested in his vision, when the movie fell through it was made in comic book form.

ETA
Andrew wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 09:07 I rarely watch documentaries, but I enjoyed it. When you see the illustrated script pages by Moebius, it becomes apparent how much influence those ideas had in scifi movies for the next decade.
Yeah, the artwork was exceptional. I'm not sure it's worth sitting through the whole doc for it.
You see it as a Christ allegory? I think Mohammad is the far more likely underlying allusion.
For the book yes.
In a similar vein to Painboy, the more I think about it the more I think the whole thing is neither Christ, nor Mohammed, nor even Joseph Smith. It's more like Dr. Livingston fanfic dressed up as Lord of the Rings in Space. Which isn't a knock, per se. Babylon 5 is similar in a lot of ways and I totally dig it.

Foundation, of course, is social scientist fanfic.
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Painboy
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Painboy »

I think I only remember two or three things from the Foundation series. The Mule, Psychohistory, and I think there was someone named Harry. The rest was pretty much an unremarkable pablum.
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Kolohe »

This was in the forward to the edition I read as a teenager (I.e not my idea), but it’s still true - Foundation is more of a detective story (or rather collection of stories) than a space ship and ray gun sci fi epic.

It also, quite deliberately, is a lot like a history textbook.

(I very much liked it as a teenager, fwiw)
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Kolohe
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

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To steer it back sorta to the topic, I think someone is trying to make Foundation as a movie. But I think it could work as a limited run series if they used the books as idea wells, but not blueprints.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Eric the .5b
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Eric the .5b »

Kolohe wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 16:37This was in the forward to the edition I read as a teenager (I.e not my idea), but it’s still true - Foundation is more of a detective story (or rather collection of stories) than a space ship and ray gun sci fi epic
If Asimov's mystery stories resembled Foundation, I'm glad I skipped them.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Eric the .5b »

Painboy wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 16:30 I think I only remember two or three things from the Foundation series. The Mule, Psychohistory, and I think there was someone named Harry. The rest was pretty much an unremarkable pablum.
It may have been the most overhyped SF I've ever read.
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Kolohe
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

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Eric the .5b wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 16:49
Kolohe wrote: 15 Apr 2020, 16:37This was in the forward to the edition I read as a teenager (I.e not my idea), but it’s still true - Foundation is more of a detective story (or rather collection of stories) than a space ship and ray gun sci fi epic
If Asimov's mystery stories resembled Foundation, I'm glad I skipped them.

The black widower ones are I think the only ones I read, but they are all short stories that are more or less in the Encyclopedia Brown format.

(Less, in the sense the schtick was a bunch of upwardly mobile New Yorkers got together for lunch (dinner?) every month, someone would bring up a mystery to solve, they would hash out questions and theories, and then their waiter would pipe up at the end with a pointed question that would solve everything.)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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Jasper
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

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I'm on the 'never cared for Foundation' train as well. Maybe I was too immature at the time to appreciate the no ray guns or weird aliens.
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Kolohe
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Re: What's New at the Bijou?

Post by Kolohe »

Part of the issue is of course that Asimov was such a prolific workaholic (along with being more than a little bit of an asshole in his personal life) that he’s his own partial sturgeon’s law.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex
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