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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

If you want to argue that there are instances where many women get treated worse by many men, sure. If you want to argue that "Dumbasses arguing with experts" are great examples, well, I'm open to the possibility that women face it more often than men do, but now we're into what is ultimately an empirical question of relative frequency. It's not enough to say "Hey, a dumbass dude tried to nitpick science terminology with a female astronaut" because I can bring up a metric shit-ton of male scientists who have encountered similar things. We need to know the relative frequency before we say that this is a great example of disparities.

In fact, I can even think of a woman (who isn't a scientist, astronaut, engineer, or other technical professional) who has tried to argue physics with me, and no matter how much I tried to explain that her scenario was flawed she just kept coming at me with more speculation.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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lunchstealer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by lunchstealer »

OK but even if he's talking about endocrinology I'm still going to assume that I'm more grounded in reality than Deepak Chopra.
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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

lunchstealer wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 19:12 OK but even if he's talking about endocrinology I'm still going to assume that I'm more grounded in reality than Deepak Chopra.
So you're just going to whitesplain to him? So much white supremacy there.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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Jennifer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jennifer »

thoreau wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 18:54
In fact, I can even think of a woman (who isn't a scientist, astronaut, engineer, or other technical professional) who has tried to argue physics with me, and no matter how much I tried to explain that her scenario was flawed she just kept coming at me with more speculation.
Did her speculations include things like "I really think you ought to go back to school and learn some science, sweetie?" Especially in the context that if you did indeed "learn some science," of COURSE you'd see she knew more about optics than you all along?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
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lunchstealer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by lunchstealer »

thoreau wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 19:22
lunchstealer wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 19:12 OK but even if he's talking about endocrinology I'm still going to assume that I'm more grounded in reality than Deepak Chopra.
So you're just going to whitesplain to him? So much white supremacy there.
Yeah but it's okay. My degree's in geophysics, not astronomy.
"Dude she's the Purdue Pharma of the black pill." - JasonL

"This thread is like a dog park where everyone lets their preconceptions and biases run around and sniff each others butts." - Hugh Akston

"That's just tokenism with extra steps." - Jake
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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

Jennifer wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 19:24
thoreau wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 18:54
In fact, I can even think of a woman (who isn't a scientist, astronaut, engineer, or other technical professional) who has tried to argue physics with me, and no matter how much I tried to explain that her scenario was flawed she just kept coming at me with more speculation.
Did her speculations include things like "I really think you ought to go back to school and learn some science, sweetie?" Especially in the context that if you did indeed "learn some science," of COURSE you'd see she knew more about optics than you all along?
Oh, that guy. I was only responding before to the case of the guy who said to the astronaut “Wouldn’t say it’s spontaneous. The pressure in the room got below the vapor pressure of the water at room temp. Simple thermo."

As to the guy who told Katie Mack to go back to school and learn some science, he's a global warming denier. I haven't argued with those guys much, but I used to argue with creationists, and I had one tell me face-to-face that I need to learn the scientific method. I was in grad school in physics and he knew that I was in grad school in physics. But he told me that I don't know the scientific method.

Was he an idiot? Yes. Was he obnoxious? Yes. Was his attitude all too common? Yes. And the fact is that the anti-science crackpots (whether creationists or global warming deniers) say that shit all the time. They even say it to men. If you want to say that they're terrible and annoying I agree. If you want to say that they're sexist, well, they might be, but that's not the main evidence of their sexism. Because they say that shit to dudes like me.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

But the woman I argued Newtonian mechanics with was much more polite to me than the global warming denier was to Katie Mack. She was much more like the guy who said to the astronaut “Wouldn’t say it’s spontaneous. The pressure in the room got below the vapor pressure of the water at room temp. Simple thermo.”
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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Warren
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Warren »

thoreau wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 18:01 BTW, you know who really likes to tell me what's wrong with the way physics is taught?

Women with PhDs in non-quantitative fields. So many women who last took a physics class a few decades ago in high school (or maybe 1 class in college) have told me that if physics were taught differently they would have become physicists because they love Stephen Hawking's work, but the subject was taught all wrong and so my profession never got to enjoy the benefit of their talent. They've never set foot in my classroom or perused one of my assignments, but they're sure I'm like their high school physics teacher, and they're also sure that physics is like a Stephen Hawking documentary.
LOL Let me guess. They think there's too much math :lol:
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
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Jennifer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jennifer »

thoreau wrote: 15 Oct 2020, 19:57
Oh, that guy. I was only responding before to the case of the guy who said to the astronaut “Wouldn’t say it’s spontaneous. The pressure in the room got below the vapor pressure of the water at room temp. Simple thermo."

As to the guy who told Katie Mack to go back to school and learn some science, he's a global warming denier. I haven't argued with those guys much, but I used to argue with creationists, and I had one tell me face-to-face that I need to learn the scientific method. I was in grad school in physics and he knew that I was in grad school in physics. But he told me that I don't know the scientific method.

Was he an idiot? Yes. Was he obnoxious? Yes. Was his attitude all too common? Yes. And the fact is that the anti-science crackpots (whether creationists or global warming deniers) say that shit all the time. They even say it to men. If you want to say that they're terrible and annoying I agree. If you want to say that they're sexist, well, they might be, but that's not the main evidence of their sexism. Because they say that shit to dudes like me.
Statistically speaking, how would you say the number of men who'd, say, publicly (and incorrectly) correct a female professional about a woman's own body parts compares to the number of women who publicly (and incorrectly) correct a male professional on the matter?

Or, regarding such men as those blind-audition judges who never even realized they were judging women more harshly than men -- not an issue in other professions where the males are the ones making decisions about the females? (Here, I'll add a reference to those pre-covid story/experiments like "Man starts using female colleague's email address for a week, and discovers 'she' gets all kinds of obstructive condescending bullshit which 'he' does not.")

Tl;dr: the type of man who'd only choose a woman's performance if she performed in a blind audition is not limited to the musical world, or to any given profession. Most women encounter men like this frequently enough for it to indeed be an official Thing.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b
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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

I dunno, some of my male in-laws are doctors and they have plenty of men argue with them about all sorts of medical matters. I don't know if they've ever gotten into an argument about the penis, testicles, or prostate, however.

Look, sexism clearly exists. That doesn't mean that every claimed instance of sexism is sexism. "Men talking to women the way that they talk to men" is many things, but disparate treatment is not one of them.

Some things probably happen to women more than men, but not all things. For instance, I think it's pretty clear that women get more inappropriate sexual attention and comments than men. It's not obvious to me that the same disparity exists in all types of obnoxious discourse.

OTOH, I am skeptical that women instructors have more "Hey, I'm not in your field but here's how you should teach it" comments than men, because I get that shit (from women and men) all the time. So do my male colleagues.

But I do believe that women get more students referring to them by the first name. I hear women colleagues complain all the time about inappropriate forms of address, and yet I never hear it from male colleagues.

Likewise, I don't doubt that women get hit on at conferences more than men. OTOH, I am skeptical that women get more geeks quibbling over terminology because that shit happens to men all the time. In fact, men do that with each other to be sociable. It's a form of camaraderie.

In short, some things probably do happen to one sex or the other disproportionately. That doesn't mean everything does.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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dbcooper
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Re: Twitter!

Post by dbcooper »

Slip inside a sleeping bag.
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Warren
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Warren »

No good. Jungle is not much of tourist destination. You won't get enough traffic to keep the fence up.

I'd go with The Warriors. Get the city to pay you to take six blocks of slum off their hands. Get vendors to pay you rent on themed drug stores and newspaper stands. Get nerds to pay you cosplay tournament entrance fees and let them beat each other to death for the entertainment of park goes that payed you to get in. Fun for the Whole Family!
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD »

Warren wrote: 20 Oct 2020, 22:43I'd go with The Warriors. Get the city to pay you to take six blocks of slum off their hands. Get vendors to pay you rent on themed drug stores and newspaper stands. Get nerds to pay you cosplay tournament entrance fees and let them beat each other to death for the entertainment of park goes that payed you to get in. Fun for the Whole Family!
I like the way this man thinks. I can, in fact, dig it.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston
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Jake
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jake »

Warren wrote: 20 Oct 2020, 22:43 No good. Jungle is not much of tourist destination. You won't get enough traffic to keep the fence up.

I'd go with The Warriors. Get the city to pay you to take six blocks of slum off their hands. Get vendors to pay you rent on themed drug stores and newspaper stands. Get nerds to pay you cosplay tournament entrance fees and let them beat each other to death for the entertainment of park goes that payed you to get in. Fun for the Whole Family!
Toooourists! Come out to payeeeay!
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dhex
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Re: Twitter!

Post by dhex »

JD wrote: 20 Oct 2020, 22:56
Warren wrote: 20 Oct 2020, 22:43I'd go with The Warriors. Get the city to pay you to take six blocks of slum off their hands. Get vendors to pay you rent on themed drug stores and newspaper stands. Get nerds to pay you cosplay tournament entrance fees and let them beat each other to death for the entertainment of park goes that payed you to get in. Fun for the Whole Family!
I like the way this man thinks. I can, in fact, dig it.
I look forward to the commercials.
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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole »

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

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thoreau
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Re: Twitter!

Post by thoreau »

Sir Mix-a-Lot is woke AF.
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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Number 6
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Number 6 »

JD wrote: 20 Oct 2020, 22:56
Warren wrote: 20 Oct 2020, 22:43I'd go with The Warriors. Get the city to pay you to take six blocks of slum off their hands. Get vendors to pay you rent on themed drug stores and newspaper stands. Get nerds to pay you cosplay tournament entrance fees and let them beat each other to death for the entertainment of park goes that payed you to get in. Fun for the Whole Family!
I like the way this man thinks. I can, in fact, dig it.
Can you?
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Pham Nuwen »

You see!!!??? You see what you get, warriors!!!!????
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex
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Ellie
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Ellie »

nicole wrote: 22 Oct 2020, 12:47
I genuinely don't even understand what the emoji face in the original tweet is supposed to convey.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Twitter!

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Ellie wrote: 22 Oct 2020, 19:38
nicole wrote: 22 Oct 2020, 12:47
I genuinely don't even understand what the emoji face in the original tweet is supposed to convey.
Tight shoes?
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Warren
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Warren »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: 23 Oct 2020, 01:20
Ellie wrote: 22 Oct 2020, 19:38
nicole wrote: 22 Oct 2020, 12:47
I genuinely don't even understand what the emoji face in the original tweet is supposed to convey.
Tight shoes?
then it should be "under 6"
Nobody, men included, wants a world where men treat women with the same respect they show to other men. - thoreau
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Eric the .5b »

It's the "woozy face" emoji, so presumably it's meant to convey disgust or nausea.
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