Twitter!

Music, books, movies, TV, games, hobbies, food, and potent potables. And forum games! Pour a drink, put on your smoking jacket, light a pipe (of whatever), and settle in.
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Ellie
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Ellie » 21 Nov 2019, 12:48

I'm pretty sure I could live to be a thousand years old, and still feel the exact same longing for a cigarette every time I see someone smoking one.

(and now I want a cigarette, goddammit :lol: )
"2019 has got to stop injecting dmt straight in the dick hole." - dhex

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dhex
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Re: Twitter!

Post by dhex » 21 Nov 2019, 21:57

I used to feel that way but I think I'm team basslord Tha vape God now.

It helps that 40% of the student body smokes on this campus it's gross as fuck to smell now.

Though I will admit to sometimes wonder if anything feels as good as the post nut cig in your early 20s did. But it'd be gross to actually do it.
"i ran over the cat and didnt stop just carried on with tears in my eyes joose driving my way to work." - God

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dbcooper
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Re: Twitter!

Post by dbcooper » 22 Nov 2019, 04:49

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 22 Nov 2019, 10:19

nicole wrote:
21 Nov 2019, 12:44
Pretty sure I will never love anything as much as I’ve loved cigarettes

Yeah, what Thomas Chatterton Williams says is pretty much the exact opposite of what I've ever heard pretty much any other ex-smoker say. I never even was a smoker myself - just the very, very occasional cigarette, pipe, or cigar - but even I have to agree that nicotine is a hell of a drug.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Mo
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Mo » 22 Nov 2019, 11:08

I miss the ritual of smoking, but I agree it smells gross as fuck to me now.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Ellie
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Ellie » 22 Nov 2019, 11:40

I have occasionally caved and bought a pack of cigarettes, and the lingering smell of gross, stale smoke is always what convinces me to re-quit. But the longing remains!
"2019 has got to stop injecting dmt straight in the dick hole." - dhex

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lunchstealer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by lunchstealer » 22 Nov 2019, 12:10

dbcooper wrote:
22 Nov 2019, 04:49
Ya gotta watch the adjuncts. They're lean and hungry, yo.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

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lunchstealer
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Re: Twitter!

Post by lunchstealer » 22 Nov 2019, 12:13

Mo wrote:
22 Nov 2019, 11:08
I miss the ritual of smoking, but I agree it smells gross as fuck to me now.
To be honest sometimes I feel that that was the only reason I ever socially smoked. My friends smoked while drinking, so I could either sit smelling secondhand smoke, find new friends, or bum a cigarette.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jennifer » 22 Nov 2019, 13:31

Given how very VERY many people I know who've said basically the same thing, I seriously wonder sometimes if my own on-off-on-off-on ad infinitum relationship with cigarettes would be less "on" if I personally had a less dysfunctional sense of smell.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 22 Nov 2019, 17:31

I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole » 25 Nov 2019, 10:41

I can't stop thinking about the results of this poll. How do you not want to be on this all the time?

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 10:47

If you can do all of those things, how are you not "conscious"?
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole » 25 Nov 2019, 10:55

JD wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 10:47
If you can do all of those things, how are you not "conscious"?
That's the definition of a p-zombie

Whether such a possibility exists is another question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 11:48

nicole wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 10:55
JD wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 10:47
If you can do all of those things, how are you not "conscious"?
That's the definition of a p-zombie

Whether such a possibility exists is another question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
Oh, a philosophical zombie. Sure, but I think p-zombie-ness mostly applies from the perspective of an outside observer. How can you be one to yourself?
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole » 25 Nov 2019, 15:46

JD wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 11:48
nicole wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 10:55
JD wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 10:47
If you can do all of those things, how are you not "conscious"?
That's the definition of a p-zombie

Whether such a possibility exists is another question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
Oh, a philosophical zombie. Sure, but I think p-zombie-ness mostly applies from the perspective of an outside observer. How can you be one to yourself?
I feel like I must be misunderstanding your last post, since I think that's most of the point of the thought experiment? I mean, the original thought experiment of p-zombies, not the poll.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 16:44

nicole wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 15:46
I feel like I must be misunderstanding your last post, since I think that's most of the point of the thought experiment? I mean, the original thought experiment of p-zombies, not the poll.
Perhaps we are talking at cross-purposes. To go back to the original poll issue, my question is "If you can 'move, talk, form & access memory', how are you not 'conscious', at least from your own perspective?" If you can say to yourself, "I took the Ordinary Banana pill and now I am working, here comes Bob to talk with me, now he is done and I have a memory of what we said", etc. then how are you not "conscious" for any reasonable definition of the term that might make you actually care whether you took such a pill or not?
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Twitter!

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 25 Nov 2019, 17:25

The likely sticking point here is "form and recall memories." Obviously, my computer has "memory" in that it can store and retrieve data but we have no reason to believe that our computers ever engage in the self-aware phenomenon of remembering.

So, too, a p-zombie would, e.g., store information on what it had for lunch and, if later asked, be able to say "I had a salad and soup for lunch," but would have had no conscious experience of having eaten in the first place nor any conscious awareness of retrieving the stored data and voicing it to give the empirically correct answer.

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nicole
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Re: Twitter!

Post by nicole » 25 Nov 2019, 17:32

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 17:25
The likely sticking point here is "form and recall memories." Obviously, my computer has "memory" in that it can store and retrieve data but we have no reason to believe that our computers ever engage in the self-aware phenomenon of remembering.

So, too, a p-zombie would, e.g., store information on what it had for lunch and, if later asked, be able to say "I had a salad and soup for lunch," but would have had no conscious experience of having eaten in the first place nor any conscious awareness of retrieving the stored data and voicing it to give the empirically correct answer.
Right, this.
"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 20:16

So the point of the pill is...to make you not have any reflexive awareness of experiences, any qualia, although you are "aware" of the experiences on a surface level? I feel like I'm missing something and/or the original poll is poorly worded, because it makes no sense to me on several levels.

I guess one of my questions is, what happens to your consciousness while you are under the effects of the pill? If when the pill wears off, you simply don't remember anything that happened while you were under the effects, isn't this just asking "do you want to give yourself retrograde amnesia?" If you do remember experiences you had while under the effects, what is the point of the pill, since you will just have the same internal state afterwards as you would have without the pill?
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Jadagul
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jadagul » 25 Nov 2019, 20:20

The point is that Nicole finds the experience of experiencing things (and, I'm guessing, of work specifically?) to be unpleasant and would like a pill that would make that go away.

I find the idea of taking that pill for anything other than, like, major surgery or extreme trauma to be utterly baffling, because life is great and I want more of it.

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 20:59

It occurs to me that I said retrograde amnesia, but perhaps anterograde amnesia would have been a better way to put it - but then, the only difference anyway is whether you take the pill at the beginning of the eight hours or afterward.
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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JD
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Re: Twitter!

Post by JD » 25 Nov 2019, 21:09

OK, I actually went and read the Twitter thread. The original author describes it as "fast forward with montage memory". I think we already have that, it's called "cultivating an attitude of detachment", or "not giving a shit", depending on how philosophical you are about it. Or just "drinking heavily after the fact".

But in the thread there is also this exchange:
"do you mean that this active-but-unconscious self would experience no emotions, for example, anxiety or emotional pain?
"yeah the idea is there’s nothing there to experience anything"

But that's not quite the same as simply "you but without awareness", that's called dissociation and flat affect. Also sometimes known as "cultivating an attitude of detachment" or "not giving a shit", to be sure.

Best comment: "isn't this just ambien with less walruses"
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Pham Nuwen » 25 Nov 2019, 23:20

No zombies, okay?

*pumps shotgun*

No. Zombies.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Nov 2019, 02:44

Pham Nuwen wrote:
25 Nov 2019, 23:20
No zombies, okay?

*pumps shotgun*

No. Zombies.
It's OK, they think they're people.

Or they don't think, they just seem to...

Fuckin' horseshit metaphysics.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Jasper
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Re: Twitter!

Post by Jasper » 26 Nov 2019, 11:25

I first read about p-zeds not too long ago in the Corporation Wars trilogy by Ken MacLeod.

I needed to look the tern up as well since I hadn't heard it before. And I kinda came to the conclusion, that at least for this scifi setting, it'd be best to think of p-zeds as human-intelligence level autonomous meat-bots that can initiate and/or respond to human (or other) interactions just as a human could be expected to, but it's all imitation, all surface; no real emotional response or connection, just the appearance of it. A p-zed ran the bar where the main characters hung out, and he was friendly, went about his business efficiently, and catered to the characters calls for drink and food. He had a back-story he could recite, about growing up, where he worked before, and even had a p-zed wife he went home to, but it was clear with a little deeper questioning that he was a sophisticated automaton, an NPC, as it were.

It was definitely one of the themes that ran through the whole story. There was debate between the humans on whether killing p-zeds was ethical or moral, and then what ramifications that carried into the real world where actual silicon-based robots had gained sentience and were demanding property rights to their own 'bodies'. Although, now that I think about it, the robots were programmed with, and were aware of, positive & negative feedback algorithms within their core CPUs which were definitely portrayed as analogous to emotional feedback.

In trying to write this out, it occurs that I'm doing a terrible job, and that there's perhaps a super-subtle difference between what makes a p-zed and the trope of self-conscious robots or AIs. Maybe it comes down to forethought and anticipating future events. The p-zeds were always reactionary; they needed stimulus to react. The robots realized the government entity sponsoring the whole terraforming and colonization project weren't too keen on self-aware robots running amok and so planned and built physical defenses against anticipated attacks and initiated lawsuits to plead their case.

Unsure if any of that helps answer the question on why you'd want to turn yourself into a bargain basement Cmdr. Data by taking a pill.
"i'd like to move toward not combusting except on special occasions like arbor day." - dhex

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