Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

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Highway
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Highway » 27 Nov 2018, 11:09

JasonL wrote:Sounds about right. All the Bengals fans around here - it was like a funeral when getting humiliated by the browns. Might finally be enough to dislodge Marvin Lewis.
It would just be the best if they replaced Lewis with Hue Jackson because the Browns beat the Bengals after firing Jackson...
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 27 Nov 2018, 14:31

From what I've read Lewis actually wanted out this year but the Bengals talked him into staying. So it's in Lewis's court as to whether he wants to come back or not.

Apparently the Bengal's owner is just the cheapest of cheapskates regarding anything outside what they have to pay according to the salary cap. Like they don't have anywhere near the number of scouts that other teams do. I just read an article that said what Lewis has achieved there with what he was given is nothing short of miraculous. So if he leaves it may actually get worse.

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Kolohe » 28 Nov 2018, 19:10

Well, Washington's team stepped on the rake again with the Foster hire.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Mo » 04 Dec 2018, 17:16

There is no greater evidence of anti-Kaepernick collusion than going with Mark Sanchez over Kaep when signing an emergency QB.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Highway » 04 Dec 2018, 18:15

Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 17:16
There is no greater evidence of anti-Kaepernick collusion than going with Mark Sanchez over Kaep when signing an emergency QB.
You sure "playing Nathan Peterman" hasn't already blown that out of the water? Or was that just cover for "Having Nathan Peterman on the roster in the first place", which again, is better evidence if you ask me.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 04 Dec 2018, 18:24

Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 17:16
There is no greater evidence of anti-Kaepernick collusion than going with Mark Sanchez over Kaep when signing an emergency QB.
I don't really understand the collusion angle. Owner's don't want him because they see him as distraction they don't want to deal with, whatever his talents. How is that collusion?

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Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by JasonL » 04 Dec 2018, 18:29

I’ve never been clear how collusion would look different from “football fans be all like ‘Murica” + “we spent a decade being a brand that fellates uniforms and that’s off brand.”

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Mo » 04 Dec 2018, 19:29

Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 04 Dec 2018, 20:18

Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Shem » 05 Dec 2018, 02:50

If Kaepernick were able to be consistently mediocre, he'd have a job by now. If he were solid enough to hold an offense together, someone would pick him up, because if you can play well enough to give a team's fans hope, they will not give a shit about what you do, even if you beat the shit out of your spouse. But if you take the risk and bring on a loser, you're the guy who hates the flag and wants to move the team to Kabul or worse, Paris. If you're successful, nobody gives a shit. If you fail, they'll call your 5th grade teacher to find shit to rake you over the coals about.

(also, Kap's girlfriend calling the Ravens' owner a slave owner on Twitter while his agent was negotiating a contract with them was really, really fucking stupid, and is a really good non-collusion reason he doesn't have a job as a QB.)
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Mo » 05 Dec 2018, 07:08

Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.
Heat from fans or heat from Trump? If it was the former, some owner would take a risk on him. I suspect it's the latter and the league is holding the line.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Warren » 05 Dec 2018, 09:24

Mo wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 07:08
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.
Heat from fans or heat from Trump? If it was the former, some owner would take a risk on him. I suspect it's the latter and the league is holding the line.
:lol: SRSLY? You think the power exchange between the NFL and POTUS goes to the POTUS?
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by nicole » 05 Dec 2018, 09:33

Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

That's literally why people think it's a conspiracy. People who think it's a conspiracy think (a) the fans don't care but (b) the owners are all not-hiring him anyway. That's kind of the point.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Mo » 05 Dec 2018, 11:44

Warren wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 09:24
Mo wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 07:08
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.
Heat from fans or heat from Trump? If it was the former, some owner would take a risk on him. I suspect it's the latter and the league is holding the line.
:lol: SRSLY? You think the power exchange between the NFL and POTUS goes to the POTUS?
Their whole offseason was doing everything they could to change the rules, even in violation of the CBA, to prevent angry tweets from the president for kneeling.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Warren » 05 Dec 2018, 12:20

Christian Booksellers Association?
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 05 Dec 2018, 14:47

nicole wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 09:33
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

That's literally why people think it's a conspiracy. People who think it's a conspiracy think (a) the fans don't care but (b) the owners are all not-hiring him anyway. That's kind of the point.
Well my point is that the owners usually are so mercenary they are always willing to flout any NFL rules where possible to give themselves an advantage. The NFL as whole likely didn't want Michael Vic, an ex-con and dog torturer, back in the league but somebody saw a possible advantage and brought him back in anyway.

Which brings up a point concerning Kaepernick. As far as I know he has never apologized or "repented" in any way for his kneel downs. While I personally don't think he should, that does mean an owner can't be confident he is not going to pull some other stunt that brings additional heat on the team.

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Mo » 05 Dec 2018, 15:56

Painboy wrote:
nicole wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 09:33
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

That's literally why people think it's a conspiracy. People who think it's a conspiracy think (a) the fans don't care but (b) the owners are all not-hiring him anyway. That's kind of the point.
Well my point is that the owners usually are so mercenary they are always willing to flout any NFL rules where possible to give themselves an advantage. The NFL as whole likely didn't want Michael Vic, an ex-con and dog torturer, back in the league but somebody saw a possible advantage and brought him back in anyway.
Which is exactly why the idea that Nate Peterman, Sanchez, Colt McCoy are brought into jobs, but Kaep isn’t is crazy. Does anyone think the fan base in Seattle or San Francisco give two shits about the kneeling? The existence of Jets fans is evidence that people will put through a lot just to watch pro football.

CBA = collective bargaining agreement. The rules of what the league and players are obligated to do and avoid.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 05 Dec 2018, 16:24

Mo wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 15:56
Painboy wrote:
nicole wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 09:33
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

That's literally why people think it's a conspiracy. People who think it's a conspiracy think (a) the fans don't care but (b) the owners are all not-hiring him anyway. That's kind of the point.
Well my point is that the owners usually are so mercenary they are always willing to flout any NFL rules where possible to give themselves an advantage. The NFL as whole likely didn't want Michael Vic, an ex-con and dog torturer, back in the league but somebody saw a possible advantage and brought him back in anyway.
Which is exactly why the idea that Nate Peterman, Sanchez, Colt McCoy are brought into jobs, but Kaep isn’t is crazy. Does anyone think the fan base in Seattle or San Francisco give two shits about the kneeling? The existence of Jets fans is evidence that people will put through a lot just to watch pro football.

CBA = collective bargaining agreement. The rules of what the league and players are obligated to do and avoid.
Kaep is an unknown variable. The owners don't want to have a potential bomb placed on their team. And they don't feel his skills are worth that plus whatever they would have to pay him.

What also isn't being answered is what is the ownership gaining if they are colluding? What are they accomplishing by doing so?

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by nicole » 05 Dec 2018, 16:35

Painboy wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 16:24
Mo wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 15:56
Painboy wrote:
nicole wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 09:33
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18
Mo wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 19:29
Fans do not care. There is zero evidence that fans care more about this than domestic abuse, dog fighting or being an accessory to a double murder.
Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

That's literally why people think it's a conspiracy. People who think it's a conspiracy think (a) the fans don't care but (b) the owners are all not-hiring him anyway. That's kind of the point.
Well my point is that the owners usually are so mercenary they are always willing to flout any NFL rules where possible to give themselves an advantage. The NFL as whole likely didn't want Michael Vic, an ex-con and dog torturer, back in the league but somebody saw a possible advantage and brought him back in anyway.
Which is exactly why the idea that Nate Peterman, Sanchez, Colt McCoy are brought into jobs, but Kaep isn’t is crazy. Does anyone think the fan base in Seattle or San Francisco give two shits about the kneeling? The existence of Jets fans is evidence that people will put through a lot just to watch pro football.

CBA = collective bargaining agreement. The rules of what the league and players are obligated to do and avoid.
Kaep is an unknown variable. The owners don't want to have a potential bomb placed on their team. And they don't feel his skills are worth that plus whatever they would have to pay him.

What also isn't being answered is what is the ownership gaining if they are colluding? What are they accomplishing by doing so?
The unknown variable thing goes for all of them. Is Michael Vick definitely never going to get caught abusing animals again? Are the wife-beaters never going to hit another woman?

I don't have an actual opinion on whether Kaep should have been rehired, because I don't know anything at all about whether he's any good. But as far as what the owners gain, well, there's the Trump tweets and anything they instigate: loss of millions of dollars in military advertising contracts, Congressional hearings, you name it.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 05 Dec 2018, 17:15

nicole wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 16:35
Painboy wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 16:24
Mo wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 15:56
Painboy wrote:
nicole wrote:
05 Dec 2018, 09:33
Painboy wrote:
04 Dec 2018, 20:18

Well clearly the owner's think they do care. As you just noted they don't always care a lot about of other issues. If an owner thought they wouldn't get significant heat for it I'm sure they would grab him up in a minute.

That's literally why people think it's a conspiracy. People who think it's a conspiracy think (a) the fans don't care but (b) the owners are all not-hiring him anyway. That's kind of the point.
Well my point is that the owners usually are so mercenary they are always willing to flout any NFL rules where possible to give themselves an advantage. The NFL as whole likely didn't want Michael Vic, an ex-con and dog torturer, back in the league but somebody saw a possible advantage and brought him back in anyway.
Which is exactly why the idea that Nate Peterman, Sanchez, Colt McCoy are brought into jobs, but Kaep isn’t is crazy. Does anyone think the fan base in Seattle or San Francisco give two shits about the kneeling? The existence of Jets fans is evidence that people will put through a lot just to watch pro football.

CBA = collective bargaining agreement. The rules of what the league and players are obligated to do and avoid.
Kaep is an unknown variable. The owners don't want to have a potential bomb placed on their team. And they don't feel his skills are worth that plus whatever they would have to pay him.

What also isn't being answered is what is the ownership gaining if they are colluding? What are they accomplishing by doing so?
The unknown variable thing goes for all of them. Is Michael Vick definitely never going to get caught abusing animals again? Are the wife-beaters never going to hit another woman?

I don't have an actual opinion on whether Kaep should have been rehired, because I don't know anything at all about whether he's any good. But as far as what the owners gain, well, there's the Trump tweets and anything they instigate: loss of millions of dollars in military advertising contracts, Congressional hearings, you name it.
Vic wasn't an unknown though. His "crisis" had already come and gone. The likelihood he would slide back into his problems was small. He also had an incentive to be a good boy because he was broke and knew he wasn't getting any other kind of work. That's not the case for Kaep who just got a big wad of money from Nike. Kaep's issue is also a political one. One in a way owner's aren't going to want to deal with. There isn't a coach in league who would be happy having that stuff in their locker room.

Again I personally think the owner's decision is stupid. I would love to have Kaep as my team's back up. But I'm not the one who has to deal with any potential PR issues he might incur.

According to this article the military gave the NFL $6 million over a 3 year period between 2011-14. Others articles put the number as high as $10 million over the last 8 years. While it's nice for the NFL (not us as taxpayers) that they don't have to pay for all the "Salute our Troops" nonsense, that's pennies when divided between 32 teams who spend $130+ million every year just on their rosters. I can't believe that alone would drive them to collusion.

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Mo » 05 Dec 2018, 17:30

Doesn’t pretty much every team have a player or 10 that kneels. The Seahawks and Eagles both have a lot. And there was no way to know that Vick was reformed or not. And there is zero chance Reuben Foster is.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Shem » 11 Dec 2018, 00:48

Kirk Cousins is so anti-clutch that if you allowed clutch to come in contact with him, it would cause an explosion that would crack the Earth's crust.
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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Painboy » 11 Dec 2018, 01:46

Shem wrote:
11 Dec 2018, 00:48
Kirk Cousins is so anti-clutch that if you allowed clutch to come in contact with him, it would cause an explosion that would crack the Earth's crust.
I read a really good article breaking him down a couple weeks ago. Basically the guy's a robot. On planned throws his timing and mechanics are perfect. Like you can put two similar throws of his at different times and his body position and mechanics are identical. But when he has to improvise and go off script it all falls apart.

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by Kolohe » 11 Dec 2018, 15:24

Painboy wrote:
11 Dec 2018, 01:46
Shem wrote:
11 Dec 2018, 00:48
Kirk Cousins is so anti-clutch that if you allowed clutch to come in contact with him, it would cause an explosion that would crack the Earth's crust.
I read a really good article breaking him down a couple weeks ago. Basically the guy's a robot. On planned throws his timing and mechanics are perfect. Like you can put two similar throws of his at different times and his body position and mechanics are identical. But when he has to improvise and go off script it all falls apart.
The automatic quarterback has no clutch - now it all makes sense.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Kulturkampf? In my NFL? It's more likely than you think. Football 2018

Post by lunchstealer » 11 Dec 2018, 18:24

Kolohe wrote:
11 Dec 2018, 15:24
Painboy wrote:
11 Dec 2018, 01:46
Shem wrote:
11 Dec 2018, 00:48
Kirk Cousins is so anti-clutch that if you allowed clutch to come in contact with him, it would cause an explosion that would crack the Earth's crust.
I read a really good article breaking him down a couple weeks ago. Basically the guy's a robot. On planned throws his timing and mechanics are perfect. Like you can put two similar throws of his at different times and his body position and mechanics are identical. But when he has to improvise and go off script it all falls apart.
The automatic quarterback has no clutch - now it all makes sense.
Yeah, still working from a viscous coupling model. Though popular in Europe, the dual-clutch automatic quarterback has not been introduced in many US models.
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