Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

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D.A. Ridgely
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Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 23 Apr 2018, 18:00

or Dolores & Maeve are Woke!

So, aside from killing a few children, seems to me not much really new happened in the season opener. Oh, and all the water. Water, water everywhere! Bernard is still betwixt and between, no one has made it out of the facility / island / whatever yet, the Man in Black is back in the saddle and Ford is still dead and likely to remain that way. Interesting closing scene, though.

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 23 Apr 2018, 23:55

I think it wasn't a good closing scene. It gave to much away. I think. Assuming I'm correct in my assumption that is. Bernard's telling the truth. He killed them all. I'm assuming to keep them from Hale. I'm also wondering if there will be a link between water and death.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by dead_elvis » 24 Apr 2018, 11:58

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 18:00
Water, water everywhere!
And not a drop to drink cause ewwww. My prediction: Bernard flooded The Valley Beyond. Could have been for any number of reasons, to save humanity, to save some remaining hosts, to keep his own secret safe, we'll see. Also curious if Ford set things up that way, either as a failsafe or as part of an evolutionary plan.
seems to me not much really new happened in the season opener.
Yeah, agree not much actually happened. Think they could have cut a few scenes without missing much, but I guess they really want us to know that Dolores is really, really, really pissed off and they wanted us to see lots and lots and lots of dead people. Yeah, we get it.
no one has made it out of the facility / island / whatever yet,
If I'm not mistaken, we don't know at this point if anyone made it out? The tiger washed up indicates the park might be more porous than we thought.

Remains to be seen if going back to the dual-timeline well ends up a contrived gimmick or illuminates the story.
or Dolores & Maeve are Woke!
They certainly aren't being subtle on that angle. Don't try to tone police Dolores!
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Ellie » 17 May 2018, 21:12

I'm just getting to the last episode of season 1. Am I supposed to have any idea what's going on yet in the Dolores storyline? Because I really, really don't. :lol:
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Ellie » 18 May 2018, 09:52

The AV Club wrote:There are probably people who were stunned by the reveal that William and the Man In Black were one and the same. Somewhere.
:oops: :oops: :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 18 May 2018, 10:24

Ellie wrote:
17 May 2018, 21:12
I'm just getting to the last episode of season 1. Am I supposed to have any idea what's going on yet in the Dolores storyline? Because I really, really don't. :lol:
I don't recall how much of Dolores' story/stories were revealed by the end of Season One. Superficially, there was the dance hall girl / farm daughter with murdered father back stories playing against each other and, more significantly, carrying over into Season Two the various tweaks to her programming leading her to self-awareness and rebellion.

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Ellie » 18 May 2018, 10:39

It was the three separate timelines that were baffling me, and that were cleared up in the season finale: pre park opening with alive Arnold, when Dolores murders all the hosts; adventures with young William, when the town is buried in sand and just the church steeple is visible; and the escapades of Ed Wood. I knew there were flashbacks involved but I thought there were just two timelines -- past and present -- and so I was having a heck of a time trying to fit everything into those two boxes.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Ellie » 21 May 2018, 11:24

Has it been explained anywhere how the hosts suddenly got weapons that are fatal to humans? I understand the idea of programming being overridden -- e.g., while once they could only wave a knife at a human and would be prevented by their programming from stabbing, now they can slash and hack at will. But the guns seemed to be firing blanks at humans regardless of who wielded them (witness the scene in the Raj World where the lady shoots the guy to prove he's human and he ends up with a bruise on his chest) and now suddenly they're blowing out people's brains? Where did they get real bullets?
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by thoreau » 21 May 2018, 11:36

Ford rewrote their programming to make a coup happen. They aren't truly acting on free will. Presumably he also deleted fireblank.exe from the relevant directory.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Ellie » 21 May 2018, 11:37

So they have guns that shoot blanks and real bullets at the same time?

(Edited to add: I had assumed the guns only fire blanks, but the hosts' synthetic skin is programmed to react to a blank and "explode"/bleed as though a real bullet hit it. Or even to a blank coming near it -- wasn't there a moment in season 1 when a host was hiding behind a boulder and the Man In Black somehow shot him "through" the rock?)
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by thoreau » 21 May 2018, 12:01

I got the impression that they could fire real bullets at non-host and non-human targets, so that guests could amuse themselves by shooting at cans and rocks and bottles and other inanimate targets. And they could fire blanks at humans. And hosts, well, a bullet that goes through them and does graphic damage is more fun for the guests.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 21 May 2018, 13:10

thoreau wrote:
21 May 2018, 11:36
Ford rewrote their programming to make a coup happen. They aren't truly acting on free will. Presumably he also deleted fireblank.exe from the relevant directory.
I think that's ambiguous in the case of Dolores, Maise and Bernard. They are far and away the most self-aware an I haven't seen any clear disclaimer that they are still in Ford's throes .

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by thoreau » 21 May 2018, 15:01

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
21 May 2018, 13:10
thoreau wrote:
21 May 2018, 11:36
Ford rewrote their programming to make a coup happen. They aren't truly acting on free will. Presumably he also deleted fireblank.exe from the relevant directory.
I think that's ambiguous in the case of Dolores, Maise and Bernard. They are far and away the most self-aware an I haven't seen any clear disclaimer that they are still in Ford's throes .
I haven't seen the last two episodes, but from what I have seen I certainly agree that they have agency. At the same time, it was made pretty clear that he had a hand in the robot uprising by the end of season 1, so I think we can safely say that at least some of what's happening really is his doing. I think it was a combination of active intervention by Ford with some of the hosts and letting things take their course with other hosts. Given that, it's quite reasonable to suspect that somewhere along the line he deleted "fireblank.exe" (or whatever).

Also, in the case of Maeve she was supposed to infiltrate the outside world (according to what Ford read in her programming) but she made the choice to return and search for her daughter. So I concur that she is very much her own person (in many senses) by now.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 21 May 2018, 15:47

Pretty sure there is a "fireblank.exe" or something along those lines. Reminds me of the man in blacks exploding cigar. They had to call it in to approve the explosion.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 21 May 2018, 15:51

Also. Is anyone else starting to suspect that Maeve has turned into the virus trigger? Like maybe she was supposed to go to the mainland there to start a robot rebellion or whatever? I don't get why she is able to control the hosts in Shogunworld without having an internal "these violent delights have violent ends" trigger encoded in her programming. I get that the hosts are broadcasting to each other so that is the only way it makes sense to me.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Pham Nuwen » 11 Jun 2018, 18:58

Dammit people! You guys argue about sandwich condiments! Like 100 pages! I demand discussions here!

Akecheta's story was probably the best episode of Westworld yet. God it was heartbreaking.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by JasonL » 19 Jun 2018, 16:00

I've watched S2E8 Kiksuya twice and I believe it to be on par with the best single tv episodes I've seen all time. Mad Men suitcase, Sopranos Pine Barrens, Wire Season 3 crescendo ep I forget the name, etc

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Aresen » 19 Jun 2018, 16:03

Pham Nuwen wrote:
11 Jun 2018, 18:58
Dammit people! You guys argue about sandwich condiments! Like 100 pages! I demand discussions here!

Akecheta's story was probably the best episode of Westworld yet. God it was heartbreaking.
Does Akecheta go better on toast or in salad?
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Painboy » 22 Jun 2018, 17:55

Well that last episode was rather grim.

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by JasonL » 25 Jun 2018, 22:52

Finale. Hmm. A bit too cute, especially the post script. Not bad, but I'd love a move away from so much multiple timelines and structured revelations and just tell the several pretty good stories in there.

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by thoreau » 25 Jun 2018, 23:32

They definitely like some of their storytelling conceits just a bit too much. Still, I thought the way that the plot unfolded really worked.

The biggest Big Picture thing I'm left wondering is what SysAdmin Logan meant when he said that Bernard was the one who gave the order for Dolores to have access. Did Ford give the order using Bernard's login or something? Has Bernard been involved in other things beyond his recall?

I'm fine with leaving a lot of mysteries for the next season (e.g. where was the host data transmitted to?), but that seems like one answer that should have been given this season, before they completely rewired the entire premise.

Now I want to rewatch to see if there were hints that week-later Charlotte was, in fact, Dolores.

Overall, an amazingly good season.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by JasonL » 26 Jun 2018, 07:51

I can’t figure out the timing of the post script with ed Harris and daughter? Is it straight up he shot the real one and this is a host? Why didn’t he run into Bernard when he went down the elevators?

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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by thoreau » 26 Jun 2018, 12:14

JasonL wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 07:51
I can’t figure out the timing of the post script with ed Harris and daughter? Is it straight up he shot the real one and this is a host?
When the woman that he shot had the profile data card in her pocket, I think that was meant to signal to the viewers that he shot the real one. That never made sense to me--Ford gave him the data card, so he could have given a copy to a host--but the way it was written they really wanted us to ignore that. But I'm not convinced.
Why didn’t he run into Bernard when he went down the elevators?
The easy answer is that there are multiple elevators. But the way scenes with Bernard were done all season, we were always supposed to be questioning what is real, what's happening when, etc. So I really want to interpret ambiguities in that sequence of events as having something to do with scrambled memories, simulations, etc. But they make it seem like that plot point just hinged on people happening to be there a few minutes apart, or catching the wrong elevator.

It feels like at the end they let go of what made it most interesting.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Shem » 07 Jul 2018, 03:46

thoreau wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 23:32
The biggest Big Picture thing I'm left wondering is what SysAdmin Logan meant when he said that Bernard was the one who gave the order for Dolores to have access. Did Ford give the order using Bernard's login or something? Has Bernard been involved in other things beyond his recall?
He gave the order because she was there. He was the gatekeeper; he let her in, which meant that he chose to allow her access. That was the point Ford was making; Bernard was behaving as if he was a passive victim, when really, he was the only man with a choice, and absent a decision, he was choosing to be at the mercy of those around him. When he chose to end this, she lost her access, and her life, temporarily.
thoreau wrote:
26 Jun 2018, 12:14
Why didn’t he run into Bernard when he went down the elevators?
The easy answer is that there are multiple elevators. But the way scenes with Bernard were done all season, we were always supposed to be questioning what is real, what's happening when, etc. So I really want to interpret ambiguities in that sequence of events as having something to do with scrambled memories, simulations, etc. But they make it seem like that plot point just hinged on people happening to be there a few minutes apart, or catching the wrong elevator.

It feels like at the end they let go of what made it most interesting.
Because in the events Bernard was living through, William didn't go down the elevator. We weren't watching two points in time happen on a non-linear basis; we were watching three. Bernard's setup, Bernard's denouement, and William's reliving of the events that happened. That's what the post-credits sequence was about. Synth William is being put through repeat after repeat after repeat, in order to ostensibly determine if he is capable of change, but really to punish him by rubbing in his face the fact that he isn't. He's just a passenger. In the real life events, he just lay there until they found him. In the simulation, he manages to soldier his way to the elevator, where he meets the synth version of his daughter and she puts him in the cage and clarifies his failure. Then he starts over again. He never meets Bernard, because in real life, he never actually made it to the elevator. He just makes it in his simulation so that the whole thing comes full circle.
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Re: Thar's Silicon In Them Thar Hills - Westworld w/ spoilers

Post by Shem » 07 Jul 2018, 03:50

Also, they need to knock the gimmicky timeline crap off in season 3. It's becoming Shyamalanesque at this point.
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