Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

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thoreau
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by thoreau » 22 Dec 2017, 22:02


Kolohe wrote: Having some deeper connection to the Force is also the only explanation I have for Dern not throwing Poe out an airlock.
Yeah, I know they were trying to set her up as a Strong Female Leader, but having the confidence to command a ship with pink hair doesn't change the fact that she tolerated a degree of insubordination that no strong admiral should take. She seemed weak, not strong, in all her scenes with Poe Dameron.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Shem » 22 Dec 2017, 22:20

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 19:28
Article on why Admiral Holdo's maneuver should change everything in Star Wars:

https://www.theringer.com/2017/12/20/16 ... -last-jedi

If you all would like, I can bs some "physics" as to why it wouldn't normally work, and it blames the success of the maneuver at the feet of General Hux.
And crashing a Japanese Zero fighter into the water line of an aircraft carrier should have been a catastrophic tactic too. Except, it led to the war ending faster, because it wasted previous materiel on a technique that was far from a foregone success. A smaller ship than the Supremacy could have avoided it by... moving out of the way. If they had known what was coming, they could have been more aggressive, and used fighters to weaken the ship and blow it up before it came to that point. It's one of those tactics where if you don't have surprise, your chances of having the time to carry it off without the other side moving to check you drop precipitously.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Kolohe » 22 Dec 2017, 22:39

There are two directing choices I really question.

The first is them showing the lightsaber moving on Snoke's throne in the beat or two before Kylo activates it. Seems like a better scene without that telegraphed punch.

The second is the 'tell not show' they did with the Luke/Ben confrontation, showing the same scene 3 times but simply narrating it differently each time to reveal what 'really' happened. Seems like they could have used more subtly and Acting! to pull this off.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Andrew » 22 Dec 2017, 23:38

Kolohe wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 22:39
Seems like they could have used more subtly and Acting! to pull this off.
As we all know, subtlety and acting are among the strongest features of the Star Wars franchise.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 23 Dec 2017, 16:11

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
19 Dec 2017, 21:26
Ellie wrote:
18 Dec 2017, 16:51
dhex wrote:
18 Dec 2017, 12:57
i like how they didn't bother explaining snoke and all that.
I didn't realize they hadn't -- I thought it was something from the first movie that I was forgetting :lol:
I am fine with people not liking the movie, but those that don't like it because it "didn't explain or expand the universe" are dorks who should be mercilessly wailed upon.
I don't get why people are saying Snoke needed a backstory. The Star Wars evil ruler order of succession is always the ugliest person in the galaxy.

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by dhex » 26 Dec 2017, 23:34

The snokes still alive people are crazy.
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Jake
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Jake » 02 Jan 2018, 22:41

Just saw it. Loved it. That is all.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Ellie » 10 Jan 2018, 11:38

Image
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Jake » 10 Jan 2018, 11:48

Image
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by JD » 11 Jan 2018, 14:05

Finally saw it last night. Overall I liked it; it might well have been the strongest of the movies outside the original trilogy. The plot was reasonably decent, the acting was pretty good, and the movie looked damn good. It did kind of seem like all of the previous SW movies had been chopped up into pieces, and then the writer assembled a new movie out of the pieces, but that's what SW movies are like.

But yeah, there were a few bits that stuck out awkwardly.
Admiral Holdo being such a softie with Dameron: the only way to explain this, really, is that it's juvenile space opera and being an impulsive flyboy always works.
Admiral Holdo's final maneuver: that's a real problem. As has been pointed out, if it worked that well, we have the massive issue of why nobody ever did this before.
Leia's non-death scene: BOO, CHEESY. What was the point of this scene, other than cheap emotional manipulation? The author makes you gasp, thinking you're actually witnessing the death of Leia, then, oh wait, actually everything's fine.
The laugh lines: mostly they were pretty decent. There sure were a lot more than in any previous SW movie I can think of. Almost too many, in fact, because I started to feel like you never knew when you were going to get dragged out of a serious scene for a cheap laugh.

And one other observation: they made it pretty obvious that the Empi-uh, I mean, First Order is very human-chauvinist, whereas the Rebels are very mixed in race, sex, and species, but more than ever, non-human characters were reduced to window dressing. Shit, I think Nien Nunb had more "lines" in ROTJ than all of the alien rebels put together in TLJ. The caretakers on Jedi Island are little more than sad-sack minstrels: ha ha, I made you clean up again; ha ha, I wrecked your cart and almost killed you with a giant rock. Chewbacca was basically reduced to playing chauffeur for Rey. Speaking of which, I hope Chewbacca knows what porgs eat and it's something he already had on the ship, because I don't think there's a pet food store within parsecs.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Mo » 11 Jan 2018, 14:17

The human-chauvinism of the Empire and derivates is canon. It was raised as why a brilliant strategist like Grand Admiral Thrawn never got bigger gigs before the emperor died.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Aresen » 11 Jan 2018, 14:38

Kolohe wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 21:35
Having some deeper connection to the Force is also the only explanation I have for Dern not throwing Poe out an airlock.
That, and Disney has another billion to make on the next episode. [STAR WARS IX: The Living Dead Jedi]

EDIT TO ADD: Also, I think this is Hollywood's idea of how a 'good' military (i.e. The Rebels) should operate.
Kolohe wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 21:35
It seems likely to me that Kylo is playing it straight and Rey's parents are 'nobodies' - it's the type of subversion and 'rhyme' that I think they want.
It had more of the feel of 'Palpatine Hints that Anakin may be able to prevent Padme from dying' bait-and-switch.

OTOH, I think Rey was strong enough by that point that she would have detected a lie.

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Kolohe » 11 Jan 2018, 18:52

Rey was a bit thirsty for Kylo after he showed his P90X Beachbody, & only snapped out of it when Kylo was like 'no bae the plan is to bring peace but be *evil* after our coup d'etat'
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Sandy » 17 Jan 2018, 05:40

Finally saw it. I’d put it in between RotJ and “I have the high ground!!!” in quality. Still too much Mary Sue, this time in Rose and Finn, not Rey. But they kept it to a dull roar.

Finn is now the only real hero character.

Admiral GenX Millennial Wannabe was completely unnecessary. Fold all that into Leia, and it actually has emotional impact and makes sense.

Holy moly did we spend a lot of time trying to appeal to Chinese audiences. Holy moly did that ever fail miserably.

It was one act too long. If you’re going to rip off the plot of Empire the way VII did with Star Wars, then the initial escape needs to be set up and drawn out more. It ended up having no tension. Then do the Rey on Irish Degobah while ripping off Battlestar Galactica’s 33 and figuring out how they’re being tracked. Third act, the Rey meets Swolo Ren thing is the big finish, punctuated by Leila’s sacrifice as Luke distracts Ren on the ship to be cut down a la OB1.

Speaking of, Po needed to be less dumb, and Leia harsher on him. That would set up her sacrifice and set him up for a better arc.

Finn and Rose both suddenly became pilots.

Luke spear fishing and milking was the only original visual in the whole movie.

Did they really need to steal the little slave kid bit from Anakin’s Big Day Out?

At least make them adolescent so they could conceivably become part of the Resistabellion by the next movie.

This was more disjointed than VII but at least tried to be a little more original. There were all the pieces for another Empire-quality movie, but they were hampered by bad writing, bad overall directing (though each individual piece was well put together), and too many visual throwbacks.

In sum, there remain only two good and original movies in the franchise, and one of those was pretty much stolen from Kurosawa and John Ford, because Lucas is a hack.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2018, 08:29

Rogue One was good and original. I would rank it as slightly below Empire as #3 in the franchise.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by dhex » 17 Jan 2018, 10:28

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 08:29
Rogue One was good and original. I would rank it as slightly below Empire as #3 in the franchise.
qft.

they're all too fucking long tho. every movie is probably. i know epics gotta epic but 2.5 hours is too fucking long to sit in a movie theatre.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Sandy » 17 Jan 2018, 11:17

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 08:29
Rogue One was good and original. I would rank it as slightly below Empire as #3 in the franchise.
Yeah. The lead character could have used a little work, but it didn't spend all its time throwing back to previous movies.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2018, 11:27

Sandy wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 11:17
The lead character could have used a little work
Name one Star Wars movie where that isn't true. Just needing "a little work" is a triumph relatively speaking.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Sandy » 17 Jan 2018, 12:53

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 11:27
Sandy wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 11:17
The lead character could have used a little work
Name one Star Wars movie where that isn't true. Just needing "a little work" is a triumph relatively speaking.
Relax, dude, I'm agreeing with you.

But I think she needed a bit more work than Luke, for example. More of his failings are plot-oriented than character oriented. She was just a little one note, whereas he had both whiny and impulsive.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Mo » 17 Jan 2018, 16:13

I know, I was pointing out that weak leads is part of the deal with Star Wars.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Sandy » 17 Jan 2018, 17:08

Mo wrote:
17 Jan 2018, 16:13
I know, I was pointing out that weak leads is part of the deal with Star Wars.
A fair point. I mean, except for Anakin. That one is rock-solid.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Aresen » 17 Jan 2018, 19:54

I am going to go full MGTOW here for a moment.

By the end of the movie, (and I agree it was interminable: I had to pee really bad by the time Luke Skywalkered in) I was starting to wonder: Is there a single decent male with brains in the entire Galaxy Far, Far Away?

Po was a dumb jock.

Finn was the cowardly lion trying to find his courage.

Kylo was the rising young porn star.

Admiral Hux was a parody of every bad commander in every bad war movie in Hollywood history.

Snoke was the perverted, ugly, dirty old rapist.

Hell, even the evil female Captain Phasma was decked out as a man. (Knight in Shining Armor, no less.)

The ONLY strong, intelligent characters were women.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 18 Jan 2018, 14:08

So it's like the original? Luke's a dummy until ROTJ.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Sandy » 18 Jan 2018, 14:29

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
18 Jan 2018, 14:08
So it's like the original? Luke's a dummy until ROTJ.
Han is cool and Ben is wise, though.

But the weirder thing about the culture war-isms is that they ended up making the black guy run away and get arrested, the latino a hothead, and the woman to appeal to Chinese audiences was actually Vietnamese. So they're kinda racist in this one. OTOH, they'll never catch up with Episode 1 for racism.
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Re: Spearfishing With Luke: The Last Jedi thread with spoilers!

Post by Mo » 18 Jan 2018, 15:00

The real stereotype is Benicio del Toro playing every prior role he's had.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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