Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Hugh Akston » 05 Jul 2017, 17:21

In my ongoing quest to comprehend the positive reaction to Wonder Woman, I clicked on this video



tl;dw WW takes risks with emotional sincerity that other superhero movies undercut with winking jokes to the audience. Which...I guess?

But the video actually makes some interesting points about the poison pill that Joss Whedon may have dropped on the MCU, which is sort of floundering in its attempts to replicate/impose his drama/snark formula rather than letting directors do their own things with a property.

I also liked the point about watching movies with a sense of emotional awareness.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by JD » 05 Jul 2017, 19:21

FWIW, I liked Wonder Woman. It's formula, but it's well-done formula.

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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by lunchstealer » 05 Jul 2017, 19:43

Hugh Akston wrote:In my ongoing quest to comprehend the positive reaction to Wonder Woman, I clicked on this video



tl;dw WW takes risks with emotional sincerity that other superhero movies undercut with winking jokes to the audience. Which...I guess?

But the video actually makes some interesting points about the poison pill that Joss Whedon may have dropped on the MCU, which is sort of floundering in its attempts to replicate/impose his drama/snark formula rather than letting directors do their own things with a property.

I also liked the point about watching movies with a sense of emotional awareness.
Yeah, Whedon knew when to do it and when not to. He got it wrong sometimes, but he had an idea of how it should go, and in some cases they were parts of the characters themselves, which is where the Stark one-liners in Civil War aren't so screwy, because they're his character being a man-child and undercutting himself with humor because he as a character is afraid of being serious (at least in the films). But once he went from comedic to serious, I can see why staying serious would be a good tonal choice.

But they should know that you don't have to go that way most of the time. The Winter Soldier was easily one of the three best and arguably the best film in the entire franchise, and it's pretty low on quips and pratfalls, and long on letting dramatic moments play out.

I liked WW as well. It's not best-in-genre, but the crossing-no-man's-land scene is easily the best DC 'hero moment' scene since the Reeves days, and may be better than any such scene in the MCU either. Get rid of some pacing issues, fix the blandness of the Boss Battle, and tighten up the Kirk/Diana line a bit, and you've got a really good movie.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Hugh Akston » 05 Jul 2017, 20:30

lunchstealer wrote:I liked WW as well. It's not best-in-genre, but the crossing-no-man's-land scene is easily the best DC 'hero moment' scene since the Reeves days, and may be better than any such scene in the MCU either. Get rid of some pacing issues, fix the blandness of the Boss Battle, and tighten up the Kirk/Diana line a bit, and you've got a really good movie.
See that's the thing I don't understand. You have one admittedly good scene. All you have to do is fix everything else that happened and you've got a really good movie. That doesn't make it a good or even passable movie. I'm not getting what people actually liked or thought was okay about it.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Sandy » 06 Jul 2017, 00:49

Disclaimer: I have not watched WW, but this guy makes an interesting case for why it has had such a positive reception:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7woPyZZwZo

I can't remember, so assume there are spoilers.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by lunchstealer » 06 Jul 2017, 11:29

Hugh Akston wrote:
lunchstealer wrote:I liked WW as well. It's not best-in-genre, but the crossing-no-man's-land scene is easily the best DC 'hero moment' scene since the Reeves days, and may be better than any such scene in the MCU either. Get rid of some pacing issues, fix the blandness of the Boss Battle, and tighten up the Kirk/Diana line a bit, and you've got a really good movie.
See that's the thing I don't understand. You have one admittedly good scene. All you have to do is fix everything else that happened and you've got a really good movie. That doesn't make it a good or even passable movie. I'm not getting what people actually liked or thought was okay about it.
There are other good features. That's a legit best-in-class feature, but it's offset by some bad features, meaning that the OK features make it... perfectly OK. I liked it, but I didn't love it.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Mo » 06 Jul 2017, 11:36

I think part of why the boss battle isn't a big demerit is because good/great boss battles are pretty rare these days.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by lunchstealer » 06 Jul 2017, 12:08

Mo wrote:I think part of why the boss battle isn't a big demerit is because good/great boss battles are pretty rare these days.
The best thing with boss battles is not to have them. I think the Secovia battle isn't bad just because it has the whole "we have to stop the macguffin from sploding til we get all the civilians off" which gives it some heart, and the Avengers one is OK just in its OK-lets-have-a-diversity-of-fighting-styles-that-somehow-works thing. Otherwise, Ant Man is the only boss battle that works for me with imaginative use of powers and so forth. Maybe Doctor Strange, but it's not really solved by the battle. Even Winter Soldier is just slug-fest with evil helicarriers.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Jadagul » 06 Jul 2017, 17:23

I loved the Thor II final battle, but it's a parody of superhero film final battles and so works by being so utterly ridiculous that it's not possible to take it seriously.

(Honestly, I think all the Thor films are improved by realizing that they're basically genre parodies).

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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Jennifer » 14 Sep 2017, 01:29

Finally got around to watching Wonder Woman. Pretty good movie, and the "big secret" about who Diana really is caught me by surprise (I guessed it would be one thing, turned out to be totally different).
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Painboy » 14 Sep 2017, 18:50

Suicide Squad...well that was a waste of time for all concerned (including me).

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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Pham Nuwen » 14 Sep 2017, 19:15

Painboy wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 18:50
Suicide Squad...well that was a waste of time for all concerned (including me).
I mean it was entertainment of sorts. I took nothing memorable away from it. Except .... rage ....

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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Warren » 15 Sep 2017, 02:31

Wonder Woman
I mostly dug it. Tops the DCEU movies, and one of only a very few good ones.
In the minus column; It drug on far too long, the story and the dialogue were hokey (So much, Okay we'll just go along with this absurd plot convenience), and the Boss Battle was boring. I also thought they dialed up her superpowers too far.

On the plus side, I thought Gal inhabited the role. She looks the part, and I even like her distinct voice. Her fighting isn't up to Whedon standards, but she hit her marks well enough. I enjoyed her little "Why aren't you doing what must be done" speeches, and she can strike a hero pose with the best of them.

Would have liked to have seen more of Lucy Davis. Etta deserves to be a more fleshed out character.

I don't really follow her motivation to keep being WW and not just go home. Because she fell in love she's going to fight for mankind forever? Um okay, thanks.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Jennifer » 15 Sep 2017, 03:28

Warren wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 02:31

I don't really follow her motivation to keep being WW and not just go home. Because she fell in love she's going to fight for mankind forever? Um okay, thanks.
According to Batman v. Superman, she did give up and go home for a long time, though. (I remember little of this myself, but read it in TVTropes). Though there's kind of a contradiction between her appearance in BvS, and this movie. This is from the Tvtropes' Headscrathcers" for WW:

WONDER WOMAN SPOILERS AHEAD

LEAVE NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT THE MOVIE SPOILED
By the end of Wonder Woman, Diana comes to an epiphany after seeing Steve's sacrifice and listening to Ares that humanity is worth keeping around at the very least, that with all the hate they have, their love conquers all. She even ends World War I herself with the people around her possibly freed by Ares's influence. Why between this film and Batman V Superman does she decide to stop being a hero, having believed the age of heroes to be over? Everything she just experienced in Wonder Woman should be reasons to keep being a hero.

Especially egregious is that she says in Batman V Superman that the impetus from her walking away was the belief that mankind couldn't stand together — but she saw plenty of examples of standing together: The Chief is friends with Steve and fights beside him even though he acknowledges the horrible past between their ancestors, Sameer also fights for good even though racism destroyed his dreams, the young German soldiers were relieved and even hugged The Chief after the fighting was over, and the majority of both sides were willing to find middle ground. And Steve gave a Heroic Sacrifice for the good of millions of people and his friends were willing to do the same. Plus her despair at seeing man continue to fight even after she supposedly killed Ares loses ground somewhat when it's revealed she never actually killed Ares and things do look up after she kills the real one, and instead of the war ending with her upset or disappointed in humanity she still sees the good in humankind (she says as much to Ares) despite their flaws. That she would eventually walk away because, well, Humans Are Bastards is absolutely plausible yet her dialogue BVS states it was the first World War that made her turn her back. World War II was a more likely culprit.

I have a theory that I already put in the Fridge page: presumably Diana hits her Despair Event Horizon again when World War II broke out and is even more chaotic and destructive than the first one, because it means everything she and her friends did, including Steve's sacrifice, was All for Nothing. It also proves Ares's words right that humans will almost always end up fighting each other, even without his influence. Not to mention the other smaller wars and conflicts after WWII that just won't seem to end even into the present day. No wonder why Diana loses hope in humanity for a long time until she comes across Batman and Superman. Also, reminiscing the good times that she had with Steve and reminding herself that humans are also capable of being good and loving plays a factor in convincing her to come back as well.

I agree 100% — though in BVS she says she walked away from world a hundred years ago, which would be after during World War I. If BVS takes place 20 Minutes into the Future however this is likely the most accurate considering it made most mortals lose their faith in humanity as well.

Also, the armistice. She knew it was at least partially arranged by Ares, and it's where most of the problems for World War II actually came from. Fascism in Italy benefitted greately from the vittoria mutilata ("maimed victory"), as it was known, and the heavy conditions imposed on Germany brought on the dissatisfaction that allowed the nazis' rise to power. Diana beleived that killing Ares wouldn't have just ended the war, but make humans pure again, seeing how even peace ended up being empty and with darkest sides might have been what made her turn her back, convincing her it all was meaningless, and World War II merely confirmed it.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Mo » 18 Sep 2017, 09:48

Warren wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 02:31
Wonder Woman
I mostly dug it. Tops the DCEU movies, and one of only a very few good ones.
WW was good, but the Nolan Batman movies are still by far the best of DCEU.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by thoreau » 18 Sep 2017, 10:10

The Nolan Batman movies aren't in the same continuity as BvS or WW.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Warren » 18 Sep 2017, 11:17

I happen to like WW better than Nolan Batman, but if you insist the first two are better I won't argue the point.
The Dark Knight Rises however, is a garbage fire of a movie.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by lunchstealer » 18 Sep 2017, 18:09

I only saw the first two. They kind of left me cold, personally, although I think that's why others hold them in higher esteem. I liked them, but not as much as I wanted to. Batman '66 is still pretty awesome.

I like WW best of the post Reeves era, but ... eh.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 23 Oct 2017, 21:14

Shockingly, the Justice League movie might be only twoo hours!
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by dbcooper » 23 Oct 2017, 21:28

Still two hours too long.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Warren » 24 Oct 2017, 21:20

dbcooper wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 21:28
Still two hours too long.
You don't know that. We haven't seen Aquaman yet. He might save the day.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by the innominate one » 26 Oct 2017, 13:52

Pham Nuwen wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 19:15
Painboy wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 18:50
Suicide Squad...well that was a waste of time for all concerned (including me).
I mean it was entertainment of sorts. I took nothing memorable away from it. Except .... rage ....

WHY WOULD YOU MENTION A FUCKING SOUL STEALING SWORD AND NEVER SHOW IT!!!! WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Both of these things are true. The story was terrible. Acting was decent, what little we got to see. Have Harley and the Joker shoot the director and screenwriter.

Cara Delivigne and Margot Robbie are...I'll be in my bunk.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by dead_elvis » 29 Oct 2017, 14:04

Warren wrote:
24 Oct 2017, 21:20
dbcooper wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 21:28
Still two hours too long.
You don't know that. We haven't seen Aquaman yet. He might save the day.
After watching WW last night, I threw on the Justice League trailer. My wife's brain short circuited; she got this vacant longing look, saying "Jason Momoa... Jason Momoa..." over and over again. Aquaman might save the day or might not, but he sold a ticket for a movie that I would probably skip myself.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by tr0g » 29 Oct 2017, 14:18

dead_elvis wrote:
29 Oct 2017, 14:04
Warren wrote:
24 Oct 2017, 21:20
dbcooper wrote:
23 Oct 2017, 21:28
Still two hours too long.
You don't know that. We haven't seen Aquaman yet. He might save the day.
After watching WW last night, I threw on the Justice League trailer. My wife's brain short circuited; she got this vacant longing look, saying "Jason Momoa... Jason Momoa..." over and over again. Aquaman might save the day or might not, but he sold a ticket for a movie that I would probably skip myself.
They gave the role to perhaps the only working actor that could make Aquaman something other than the butt of a joke about talking to fish. The casting decision was inspired.
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Re: Zack Snyder's Slow Motion French Fries: the DCEU Thread

Post by Kolohe » 29 Oct 2017, 17:10

Isn't he Problematic(TM) now or something?
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