2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Music, books, movies, TV, games, hobbies, food, and potent potables. And forum games! Pour a drink, put on your smoking jacket, light a pipe (of whatever), and settle in.
User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24422
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Warren » 25 Sep 2015, 00:27

Randroid 2.0 wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
tr0g wrote:Can somebody tell me what the overall graduation rate for freshmen entering college is? Oh, look the 6 year rate for 2013 is 59%. And FBS athletes are at 55%? Umm, who fucking cares? The FBS is doing about as well as the state of Oregon (55.5%). I'm not gonna call that anything that matters.
For that matter, one might reasonably ask about some FBS schools whether any of their diplomas aren't shams.

That said, ordinary freshmen are not, in general, highly recruited, given special schedules, tutors and all too often special treatment by designated faculty members and yet, with all those special favors, still flunk out.

There are quite a few state schools that essentially take all in-state (and/or full tuition paying) students and flunk them out rather than face the wrath of state legislatures. But, again, one can at least argue that those students are victims of an indifferent system, not one that intentionally exploits them for financial gain and discards them as soon as their market value plummets.
So are they pampered or "exploited" (loaded language alert)?


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.
Srsly? You can't wrap your brain around how pampering is a tool of exploitation?
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Randroid 2.0
Posts: 643
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 14:52
Location: Right. Here.

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 25 Sep 2015, 00:32

Saying that people are valuable until they aren't isn't describing exploitation; it's describing how the world works.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17906
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 25 Sep 2015, 00:38

Randroid 2.0 wrote:Saying that people are valuable until they aren't isn't describing exploitation; it's describing how the world works.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.
It's more specifically how human trafficking works, too.

If you want to frame this argument as glass half empty/glass half full, that's fine with me. That said, I don't think what's in the glass, however full, is potable.

User avatar
Randroid 2.0
Posts: 643
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 14:52
Location: Right. Here.

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 25 Sep 2015, 00:58

It's how literally everything in the world works. You have value to people , then you don't, then they don't pay you. That's the entirety of homo economicus.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 25 Sep 2015, 08:14

Randroid 2.0 wrote:How is the current system not free market?
You mean aside from the NCAA, which is mostly made up of government entities (who dominate in influence) dictating wages and getting protection from legislation. College sports make health care look like a lassaiz faire ideal.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24422
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Warren » 25 Sep 2015, 08:40

Mo wrote:
Randroid 2.0 wrote:How is the current system not free market?
You mean aside from the NCAA, which is mostly made up of government entities (who dominate in influence) dictating wages and getting protection from legislation. College sports make health care look like a lassaiz faire ideal.
I mean you're kidding right? Or trolling? Actually I think it's a lawyer thing. At any rate the economics of college sports is the epitome of cronyism and far removed from free market capitalism.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 22534
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by JasonL » 25 Sep 2015, 10:02

A better world would be one where nobody ever in life had to give a shit what Mark Emmert said about someone giving a kid a free tattoo.

User avatar
Randroid 2.0
Posts: 643
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 14:52
Location: Right. Here.

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 25 Sep 2015, 10:40

Mo wrote:
Randroid 2.0 wrote:How is the current system not free market?
You mean aside from the NCAA, which is mostly made up of government entities (who dominate in influence) dictating wages and getting protection from legislation. College sports make health care look like a lassaiz faire ideal.
Government entities as in the universities? I don't see how that's actually relevant to whether the current arrangement is free market. The NFL, NHL, et al are similar, and they're comprised of private organizations.

"Dictating wages" is what every employer does. At some point, you take it or leave it. There's less negotiating power, but that's true of entry level positions at Target too.

I don't know what the legislation is.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.

User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 11411
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Ellie » 26 Sep 2015, 19:32

Florida can eat ten thousand shit-covered dog dicks.
"NB stands for nota bene do not @ me" - nicole

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 27 Sep 2015, 09:12

The NFL isn't run by a bunch of government organizations. All those sports leagues are owned and run by private organizations. Colleges are going to get preferential treatment because most are state run bodies. If the NCAA is the free market than any market, no matter how enmeshed with the government it is, is the free market.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Randroid 2.0
Posts: 643
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 14:52
Location: Right. Here.

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 27 Sep 2015, 23:03

Preferential treatment how? The mere fact schools are publicly funded does not mean the Athletics are unfree in some way. Yes, the underpinnings of the system have what you could marginally call State Actors, but within that scheme it's possible to have a free market. For example, private contractors competing for bids with DOD or Medicare is still better than having no competition at all. Unless you're advocating for the total privatization of all colleges, I don't see how you can be consistent on this.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 28 Sep 2015, 00:59

Let's see, tax free financing, massive state subsidies and protection from lawsuits (the reason only Northwestern could be party to the unionization lawsuit was that the rest of the Big 10 were public and were protected). How the hell do college athletics resemble a free market?
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 22534
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by JasonL » 28 Sep 2015, 09:56

Regardless of the quasi market of college athletics, if the NFL created a minor league that paid talent and drafted from that pool, most of the shittines of the NCAA would evaporate.

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24422
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Warren » 28 Sep 2015, 10:06

JasonL wrote:Regardless of the quasi market of college athletics, if the NFL created a minor league that paid talent and drafted from that pool, most of the shittines of the NCAA would evaporate.
Agreed.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 29 Sep 2015, 22:54

JasonL wrote:Regardless of the quasi market of college athletics, if the NFL created a minor league that paid talent and drafted from that pool, most of the shittines of the NCAA would evaporate.
+1
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Randroid 2.0
Posts: 643
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 14:52
Location: Right. Here.

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 29 Sep 2015, 23:03

The NFL's not stupid. If there were profit in that, they would have done it by now. Note the NFL has also limited players in participating in fantasy sports. Note the NFL (selectively) carries penalties forward from the NCAA.

saying that universities are publicly funded ergo the market is not free is unconvincing. No college is obligated to join the NCAA. As for the union thing, union law is so far effed up that citing an exemption to it as anti free market is missing the point.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 22534
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by JasonL » 30 Sep 2015, 09:33

Randroid 2.0 wrote:The NFL's not stupid. If there were profit in that, they would have done it by now. Note the NFL has also limited players in participating in fantasy sports. Note the NFL (selectively) carries penalties forward from the NCAA.

saying that universities are publicly funded ergo the market is not free is unconvincing. No college is obligated to join the NCAA. As for the union thing, union law is so far effed up that citing an exemption to it as anti free market is missing the point.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.
We'll see. You are starting to see this break up in basketball. Kids are going overseas to be paid. You have a stability of collusion that has endured, but market willing a paid outlet for kids will emerge and Emmert will drown in salty ham tears.

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 30 Sep 2015, 13:39

Randroid 2.0 wrote:The NFL's not stupid. If there were profit in that, they would have done it by now. Note the NFL has also limited players in participating in fantasy sports. Note the NFL (selectively) carries penalties forward from the NCAA.

saying that universities are publicly funded ergo the market is not free is unconvincing. No college is obligated to join the NCAA. As for the union thing, union law is so far effed up that citing an exemption to it as anti free market is missing the point.
Universities aren't publicly funded, they are government entities. Space-X is government funded, NASA is the government. The NCAA actively prevents price discovery in the market and actively prevents their participants from engaging in market activity to attract talent.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Randroid 2.0
Posts: 643
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 14:52
Location: Right. Here.

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 30 Sep 2015, 23:10

Mo wrote:
Randroid 2.0 wrote:The NFL's not stupid. If there were profit in that, they would have done it by now. Note the NFL has also limited players in participating in fantasy sports. Note the NFL (selectively) carries penalties forward from the NCAA.

saying that universities are publicly funded ergo the market is not free is unconvincing. No college is obligated to join the NCAA. As for the union thing, union law is so far effed up that citing an exemption to it as anti free market is missing the point.
Universities aren't publicly funded, they are government entities. Space-X is government funded, NASA is the government. The NCAA actively prevents price discovery in the market and actively prevents their participants from engaging in market activity to attract talent.
And, and and and?

How do they prevent price discovery? The price is well known and still actively affirmed to, right?

I'm still failing to see how the fact these entities being the government somehow prevents the market from being a market.


Sent from my iBone, to beat Warren to the punch.

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 30 Sep 2015, 23:38

Cartels and government collusion are free market principles now? FFS Randian, you are letting your love of the fictional "student-athlete" and gauzy NCAA market blind you. The evidence to the contrary is that in every other sport players of the same age either a) get paid (baseball, soccer, basketball pre required college rule) or b) require significant collusion from sports leagues to prevent the market from emerging (NBA post-high school rule*, NFL age rule).

Answer the question, how does it resemble a free market? What makes this a free market, but the health care market isn't one?

* And even in this case, players have discovered the Europe loophole.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24422
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Warren » 30 Sep 2015, 23:41

How do you guys let yourselves get sucked into this. You know he's just honing his cross examination skills. Was there some point at stake anyway? What does it mean if the NCAA football is or is not sufficiently free market?
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
Ellie
Posts: 11411
Joined: 21 Apr 2010, 18:34

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Ellie » 30 Sep 2015, 23:53

Warren wrote:What does it mean if the NCAA football is or is not sufficiently free market?
It limits the number of dog dicks we can force Florida to eat?
"NB stands for nota bene do not @ me" - nicole

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13437
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Kolohe » 03 Oct 2015, 17:23

I really shouldn't expect any more out of third tier (Comcast) college football announcers, but guys, really, Frank Beamer lifetime statistics are no longer an indication of 'Beamerball' but an indication of longevity, a la a heat map that's also a population density map.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 23013
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by Mo » 06 Oct 2015, 09:24

The "Dabo Swinney was cut off because he mentioned God" conspiracy theory is pretty ridiculous even by right wing media conspiracy standards. If you're cutting off someone to go to the studio, your studio hosts aren't going to be silently playing Candy Crush the whole time.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 15980
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: 2015: SEC football is the only real football.

Post by lunchstealer » 06 Oct 2015, 13:22

Mo wrote:The "Dabo Swinney was cut off because he mentioned God" conspiracy theory is pretty ridiculous even by right wing media conspiracy standards. If you're cutting off someone to go to the studio, your studio hosts aren't going to be silently playing Candy Crush the whole time.
Dabo Swinney was cut off because he has as stupid name and Clemson has a stupid name and interviewing him is stupid.

*go cocks*
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests