We know the Russians love their children too

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 01 May 2016, 22:38

1) the Capital Crescent Trail was still a railroad in 1983.

2) when Elizabeth is on the phone, you can see the Old Post Office and Capitol in the background. You can also see a streetcar that stopped operating in the mid 50s

3) FBI agents all over Rock Creek Park, and no one hears some dude shouting "Martha! MARTHA!" ?
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 01 May 2016, 22:46

That thing where woman poobah at the rezidentura is asked by her minion "is there anything else?" And she's like "nope, we're done" seems important to me, as she was supposed to be multitasking at that point.

One more stray thought - the latch key kid vibe is rather well done, that seems to be a practice that has gone out of style (or at least nobody talks about it anymore)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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dbcooper
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by dbcooper » 01 May 2016, 22:48

Kolohe wrote:1) the Capital Crescent Trail was still a railroad in 1983.

2) when Elizabeth is on the phone, you can see the Old Post Office and Capitol in the background. You can also see a streetcar that stopped operating in the mid 50s

3) FBI agents all over Rock Creek Park, and no one hears some dude shouting "Martha! MARTHA!" ?
This show wasn't already completely ridiculous? I stopped watching as they seemed more like superheroes than spies.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 01 May 2016, 22:52

You would have really liked the episode last year, db, where they go head to head with South African intelligence in a diner.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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dbcooper
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by dbcooper » 01 May 2016, 22:54

Sarcasm or for reals?
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 01 May 2016, 22:55

As a guy who was the Jenning son's age in almost exactly the sam year in almost exactly the same neighborhood, I enjoy the little bits of DC arcana they put in (Jhoon Rhee USA-1000 nobody bothers me!) and am slightly disappointed when they mess up (MASH did not air on channel 5 in DC in its initial run)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 01 May 2016, 23:09

Kolohe wrote:That thing where woman poobah at the rezidentura is asked by her minion "is there anything else?" And she's like "nope, we're done" seems important to me, as she was supposed to be multitasking at that point.
Tatiana seemed more interested in getting the germ sample out of the country than getting Martha out of the country. I keep wondering if Martha will be killed by the KGB; with the system crumbling it's not like they can afford to spend money on her relocation, acculturation, and language training.

One thing I keep waiting for is Arkady yelling at Tatiana for what happened to Gabriel with the bioweapon. He already chewed her out early in the season for hiding her germ warfare activity from him. Now that an agent in the field almost died you'd think he'd be furious. Unless he doesn't know because he's not cleared to know anything about bioweapons.

Finally, I'm kind of curious if they'll go back to the Afghan storyline. There are plenty of good reasons to not revisit that or expand the number of plotlines in the air, but last season Philip was motivated to get info on Afghanistan because his son is fighting there. With so much being focused on Philip's conflicting emotions and loyalties, his son would seem to be an important element.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 01 May 2016, 23:41

Kolohe wrote:1) the Capital Crescent Trail was still a railroad in 1983.

2) when Elizabeth is on the phone, you can see the Old Post Office and Capitol in the background. You can also see a streetcar that stopped operating in the mid 50s

3) FBI agents all over Rock Creek Park, and no one hears some dude shouting "Martha! MARTHA!" ?
It never ceases to amaze me how many fictional characters in D.C. have unobstructed views of the White House or the Capitol Building.

Just watched a clip on Hit & Run about streetcars in D.C. where it was said, I honestly don't remember, that the last streetcar was in 1962. Which is not to say they were still running around the Old Post Office and Capitol Hill. I remember seeing them in Rosslyn as a child but never rode on one.

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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 06 May 2016, 01:47

That was an amazingly well-done episode. I'm also pretty amazed that they pulled off a good mid-season reboot.

I never thought I would see Elizabeth ordering Paige to go to church. I'm mildly amused by the way that Gabriel gives them a vacation and then they wind up running Paige as an agent. So much for the plan to keep Paige out of the KGB.

The mention of Philip's older son in Russia is interesting. I wonder if he'll factor into the remainder of the season. Since they mentioned Kimmy again for the first time this season, I wonder if that's a hint that she'll be in the season, which would be perfect for a Mischa Jr. storyline.

The Rezidentura storyline is still dragging. But I am hoping that it will kick into high gear soon, in light of Gaad's comment to Stan.

Finally, Stan Beeman is the most obtuse neighbor in the world. Philip is one of the few American males to prefer hockey to football. At this point he could invite Stan over for vodka and chicken Kiev, and mention that they're celebrating Christmas on January 6 this year, and Stan would be oblivious.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by pistoffnick » 06 May 2016, 09:14

The airplane they flew Martha (and the mouse) is a Beech Bonanza (aka the V-Tail doctor killer) They choose to use a tail number from an active airplane (a 1929 Curtis wright). I'm curious why they didn't use a generic number such as N555DK (similar to how telephone numbers are 555-xxxx)?

edit: Heh! N555DK belongs to a 1988 Christen Eagle II Homebuilt.
Always be suspicious of people who have, or crave, power. - Stanley Kubrick
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus

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Sandy
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Sandy » 06 May 2016, 09:45

pistoffnick wrote:The airplane they flew Martha (and the mouse) is a Beech Bonanza (aka the V-Tail doctor killer) They choose to use a tail number from an active airplane (a 1929 Curtis wright). I'm curious why they didn't use a generic number such as N555DK (similar to how telephone numbers are 555-xxxx)?

edit: Heh! N555DK belongs to a 1988 Christen Eagle II Homebuilt.
Were Bonanzas that deadly? My childhood had significant time around small airports and I remember them as fairly common.
Hindu is the cricket of religions. You can observe it for years, you can have enthusiasts try to explain it to you, and it's still baffling. - Warren

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pistoffnick
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by pistoffnick » 06 May 2016, 10:04

No more than any other small airplane. But somehow they developed a reputation.
Always be suspicious of people who have, or crave, power. - Stanley Kubrick
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." - Albert Camus

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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Highway » 06 May 2016, 10:22

It doesn't take many data points for people to claim there's a trend, no matter what you're talking about. Especially when you've got something that's really popular (relative to demand), over a long period of time, and with a failure case that is always attention-grabbing.
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 06 May 2016, 11:01

What was Phillip doing at that cemetery?
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 07 May 2016, 15:16

So, here's how I could honestly see the series ending:

The Cold War is winding down (probably after a few fast-forwards). Stan is getting drummed out of the FBI. Philip and Elizabeth are told that the Soviet Union is broke and can't fund their operations, and can't afford to put them and their children up in Russia, so they're on their own to live as travel agents (at least for another 10 years until travel websites come around). Then Stan figures out who Philip and Elizabeth are. But rather than bringing in an FBI team to do surveillance and a raid, he confronts Philip one-on-one. He tells Philip that he knows what he and Elizabeth did to Martha and probably a bunch of other people. Philip says "We did what we needed to do to protect our country."

Stan's response:

"Don't give me that, Philip. It's bullshit. Countries? Orders? National Security? It's all bullshit. It's about using people, Philip. You used them. You used Martha. You used your other agents. Did you use your daughter's pastor too? Hell, you used me. I'm your neighbor. I was your friend. And you used me to find out what you needed to know about my office and the people I worked with. And I used people too. I used them and they got hurt and some of them even got killed. Because that's what this business is. It's about using people. Well, I'm sick of it. I'm sick of using people and being used. Don't give me your excuses, because it's all just using people."

"So are you going to turn me in?"

"Yeah, I guess I could, couldn't I? I could turn you in, and they'd probably give me my job back. I could use you to get my job back." (Pause) "Screw that. You and Elizabeth deserve to live with yourselves. I'm done."

Then he walks away.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 07 May 2016, 15:36

thoreau wrote:What was Phillip doing at that cemetery?
It's the grave of the guy Philip framed for the bug (I had the same question, the internet helped)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 07 May 2016, 15:38

(Dup comment deleted)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 07 May 2016, 17:52

The internet also says that it was right around 7 months between the airing of that Copperfield special and the Day After mini series.

When Elizabeth laid the smackdown on Paige, Elizabeth was clearly not in control of her emotions due to her frustration with Philip and the post traumatic stress of killing one of her agents, and thus venting all her anger on Paige. It's kinda weird that the law that was laid down in anger is still in effect 7 months later.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by JasonL » 08 May 2016, 08:28

That fact kinda led me to wonder how far the fissure between Elizabeth and Philip could be heading. She seemed headed full steam toward a very different place than we know Philip to be in as in her mind the only one who still cares about the job, but then there was the thing with her korean friend that seemed to be an attempt to try to let some of america in or something? Dunno.

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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 09 May 2016, 19:40

An interview with two kids whose lives actually sort of come close to those of Paige and Henry:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... are_btn_tw
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 09 May 2016, 20:55

thoreau wrote:An interview with two kids whose lives actually sort of come close to those of Paige and Henry:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/m ... are_btn_tw
So, without checking the link, one or both of the parents went to Cambridge, right?

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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 13 May 2016, 02:12

Watching what she did to Young-hee's husband was painful. It was well done, but I kept wanting Elizabeth to have a change of heart. I think Elizabeth also wanted to pull back, but unlike Philip she puts the mission before humane concern for the agents.

Watching all of these different KGB agents watch American TV was amusing.

Not as good as last week, but last week was probably their best episode ever. It was solid. This is a good season.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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Kolohe
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by Kolohe » 13 May 2016, 10:06

I think what we're seeing is Elizabeth finally reach her breaking point, a little later than Philip (who reached it before with the twin pressures of Martha and ll' Kimmie), which make sense, as she was always the true believer the way Philip was not.

The strongest thing is the thematic parallels every episode makes between the various plots in a given episode and the episode title (title's drawn from 1980s pop culture and normally shown as part of the episode). Though this only became obvious after the AV club pointed it out to me.

Like last week - Statue of Liberty disappears, then suddenly reappears. LIkewise, all of Philip and Elizabeth's problems disappear, as does Martha from the FBI's search. Then at the end, the problems reappear in the form of a Paige under severe emotional stress.

This week, the Day After. Elizabeth goes nuclear in her relationship with Young-hee - using a weapon that will destroy everyone it touches, including the user. The Camaro also represents a great power that can be destructive to its user.

I'm disappointed(?) in Oleg though? Getting together with the other somewhat big wig in the office seems like a plot shortcut, maybe copout, that is normally beneath this show. Oleg seemed to be on the verge of something when he got the one two punch of his brother's and Nina's deaths. Now, he seems to just be back at his job, back to his old hobbies.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by JasonL » 14 May 2016, 09:08

Crap that was awful to watch. Fucking ugh.

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thoreau
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Re: We know the Russians love their children too

Post by thoreau » 15 May 2016, 23:55

Prediction:. The Korean scientist guy is fundamentally decent. He will feel that the only right path forward is to confess his transgression rather than betray his chosen country.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

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