Star Trek Wankery

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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer » 02 Nov 2017, 14:18

Even if all the aforementioned examples are considered "science fiction," a typical fan in the Star Trek era wouldn't have been able to watch them most of the time. That was when people didn't even have VCRs yet (excluding a few super-rich guys who could afford major investments in home recording equipment), and there wasn't even cable TV, so if you wanted to watch TV at any given time your choices were restricted to "Whatever's airing on the three major networks, PBS, and maybe a couple of local indie stations that mostly air cheap reruns and ancient movies," so when TOS: The Original Series was first airing (or at least when those numbered Star Trek books first came out), pickings were slim indeed.

Even so, the stories in those books were so badly altered, if TOS actually did air in that form, it would've been considered crappy even by 1960s TV standards. They took those original episodes (many of which were indeed very good), then butchered them into suckitude.

My earliest childhood was in six or seven-channel TV days, and I did see Twilight Zone as a kid because a local indie station (IIRC channel 33, which a few years later became an affiliate station of the brand-new Fox Network) aired two-hour episode blocks on Saturday nights, and I felt very grown-up when, as a seven- or eight-year-old, my mother let me stay up with her on Saturdays to watch Twilight Zone.

But none of the TV stations where I grew up aired "Outer Limits," so I never saw it until a few years ago when I had my first DVR. Must've been some later episodes because they were downright awful, and I quit watching after a few tries.
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Warren
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Warren » 02 Nov 2017, 14:49

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 14:03
I don't think the Prisoner or the Avengers qualify as science fiction. In the same way that James Bond or those other Avengers don't.
Are you saying Sci Fi must be in spaaaaaaaace?
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 02 Nov 2017, 15:28

Warren wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 13:27
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 13:18
Jennifer wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 12:12
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
02 Nov 2017, 05:40
Jennifer wrote:
03 Oct 2017, 20:20
So I read a couple stories of episodes I haven't seen, and I was not impressed at all -- there were definitely some good ideas in there, but IMO they were not fleshed out nearly well enough to make for interesting stories, even by the rather low standards sci-fi fans of the 1960s would've had to settle for.
A cursory examination of the Hugo winners and Nebula awards during the 1960s demonstrate that it was a very rich period for good science fiction.
I should've specified: the low standards fans of televised science fiction would've had to settle for.
Yep. No argument there, Twilight Zone, early Outer Limits and The Prisoner aside.
The Avengers, Jonny Quest also The Jetsons and My Favorite Martian
The Avengers was a good show, but I don't consider it SF and will on similar grounds concede The Prisoner probably shouldn't be counted, either. Johnny Quest was one of those Saturday Morning cartoon shows, if I recall and that's all I recall about it. The Jetsons didn't even try to be science fiction, it was just The Flintstones with flying cars; that is, the stories never dealt with any scientific themes or speculation beyond "everyond gets everything done by pushing a button." I liked My Favorite Martian although, again, it was really just your basic sitcom with Martin being able to turn invisible and pull a few more tricks.

There were other science fiction shows in the 60s, e.g., My Living Doll, Lost In Space,, The Time Tunnel and quite a few more, actually, but for the most part they were rubbish.


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Painboy
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Painboy » 07 Dec 2017, 21:51

Normally I'd be skeptical as Tarantino seems to like to talk about making films more than actually making them at times, but if that kind of money is behind him you have to believe that it's going to get made. Although the whole thing does kind of sounds like an idea for an SNL skit.

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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by dbcooper » 08 Dec 2017, 23:08

Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer » 06 Jan 2018, 21:18

Saw the "Spock's Brain" episode for the first time.












Ugh.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b » 03 Mar 2018, 09:08

Finally saw Star Trek: Beyond. That was much better than I was lead to believe, and it was scads better-directed than the first two movies.

I didn't buy the Kirk-getting-sick-of-space business, and both the space vampirism and where the mooks came from were way too glossed over, but the rest worked.
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nicole
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by nicole » 03 Mar 2018, 09:18

Eric the .5b wrote:
03 Mar 2018, 09:08
Finally saw Star Trek: Beyond. That was much better than I was lead to believe, and it was scads better-directed than the first two movies.

I didn't buy the Kirk-getting-sick-of-space business, and both the space vampirism and where the mooks came from were way too glossed over, but the rest worked.
I thought it was the weakest of the new three plotwise, in the way that people say is a thing now because of the need to appeal to Chinese audiences. Idris Elba's backstory and motivations in particular seemed weak.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b » 03 Mar 2018, 22:08

I've seen films with weaker plots than the first nuTrek. I can't remember them.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Hugh Akston » 05 May 2018, 13:47

"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 05 May 2018, 23:54

Hugh Akston wrote:
05 May 2018, 13:47
So much cooler than cell phones.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 10 May 2018, 00:21

Man, TNG's the Chase. Ancient astronauts skeeted across the face of the galaxy.

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Ellie
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Ellie » 12 May 2018, 10:06

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
10 May 2018, 00:21
Man, TNG's the Chase. Ancient astronauts skeeted across the face of the galaxy.
Hahahaha!

Image
I should have listened to Warren. He was right again as usual.

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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer » 23 May 2018, 15:25

There are exceptions in both cases, but: for the most part, when watching TV episodes I prefer TNG to TOS, but when reading novels (original novels, not novelizations of movies or TV episodes), the TOS offerings are far better than TNG (except for a couple of Peter David works). I have not been able to put my finger on why, though.
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Kolohe
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Kolohe » 23 May 2018, 20:32

Everything about Kirk is pulpy sci fi. Picard has to pretend to be in a pulpy thing on the holodeck to have any fun.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Aresen
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Aresen » 23 May 2018, 20:45

Jennifer wrote:
06 Jan 2018, 21:18
Saw the "Spock's Brain" episode for the first time.












Ugh.
If you didn't vomit, you handled it well.
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lunchstealer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer » 23 May 2018, 22:38

Jennifer wrote:
23 May 2018, 15:25
There are exceptions in both cases, but: for the most part, when watching TV episodes I prefer TNG to TOS, but when reading novels (original novels, not novelizations of movies or TV episodes), the TOS offerings are far better than TNG (except for a couple of Peter David works). I have not been able to put my finger on why, though.
The writing for TOS was pretty bad. There'd been 20 years of narrative development in television between the end of TOS and the start of TNG.

But the characters in TOS were better. So you level the playing field by having the same suite of authors working at the same time with both sets of characters, they can do better work with the TOS characters.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b » 23 May 2018, 23:04

lunchstealer wrote:
23 May 2018, 22:38
The writing for TOS was pretty bad. There'd been 20 years of narrative development in television between the end of TOS and the start of TNG.
Which makes it mysterious why the firs couple of seasons of TNG were so dire, writing-wise.
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by lunchstealer » 23 May 2018, 23:31

Eric the .5b wrote:
23 May 2018, 23:04
lunchstealer wrote:
23 May 2018, 22:38
The writing for TOS was pretty bad. There'd been 20 years of narrative development in television between the end of TOS and the start of TNG.
Which makes it mysterious why the firs couple of seasons of TNG were so dire, writing-wise.
Well, people didn't quite understand that you could do good writing for sci fi yet there was this idea that it had to be pseudoshakespearian and allegorical and everyone had to speak slowly and clearly and explain the plot and their feelings at every step of the way. Also Season 3 is where Ronald D Moore comes on board. No idea if there's anything beyond correlation there.
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Jennifer
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Jennifer » 23 May 2018, 23:37

Eric the .5b wrote:
23 May 2018, 23:04
lunchstealer wrote:
23 May 2018, 22:38
The writing for TOS was pretty bad. There'd been 20 years of narrative development in television between the end of TOS and the start of TNG.
Which makes it mysterious why the firs couple of seasons of TNG were so dire, writing-wise.
Because Roddenberry.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b » 24 May 2018, 00:12

lunchstealer wrote:
23 May 2018, 23:31
Eric the .5b wrote:
23 May 2018, 23:04
lunchstealer wrote:
23 May 2018, 22:38
The writing for TOS was pretty bad. There'd been 20 years of narrative development in television between the end of TOS and the start of TNG.
Which makes it mysterious why the firs couple of seasons of TNG were so dire, writing-wise.
Well, people didn't quite understand that you could do good writing for sci fi yet there was this idea that it had to be pseudoshakespearian and allegorical and everyone had to speak slowly and clearly and explain the plot and their feelings at every step of the way. Also Season 3 is where Ronald D Moore comes on board. No idea if there's anything beyond correlation there.
Well, and Jennifer points out, Roddenberry.

My snarky point is that the twenty years of narrative development were pretty much irrelevant, starting off. TOS went, in the course of its run, from TV writing and directing that was perfectly fine for its day to complete dreck in the final season. TNG started off at the "Spock's Brain" level, just with more overt mentions of sex and rape gangs. It lasted long enough to get decent writing through a mix of viewer nostalgia, lack of competition in the niche, and the talent of the cast. Quite a few fans like to identify the point TNG finally got good as "The Best of Both Words", which was almost halfway through the run of the series—after it had already run as long as the entirety of TOS. I think the overall quality gap is easily overstated.

I mean, yeah, TNG was "my Trek" before DS9 (especially since the local channels seemed to only show the same few season 3 episodes of TOS when I was a kid), but it had a lot of crap. Planet of the savage black people, Planet of horny SoCal spa people who want to kill Wesley, Doctor Crusher's Anne Rice's The Witching Hour (and that was a seventh-season ep!), etc.
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Aresen
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Aresen » 13 Jun 2018, 19:24

Image
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by Eric the .5b » 13 Jun 2018, 21:44

Image
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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dbcooper
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Re: Star Trek Wankery

Post by dbcooper » 19 Jun 2018, 21:57

They fired Discovery's showrunners. New shows might be ordered, including a new Picard series with Stewart.

Then there's this:
The potential new shows are said to include: A series set at Starfleet Academy from creators Stephanie Savage and Josh Schwartz. The duo most recently developed the CW’s reboot of “Dynasty” and previously created shows like “Gossip Girl” and Hulu and Marvel’s “Runaways.”
Oh dear.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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