Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

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Painboy
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Painboy » 07 May 2018, 12:52

Jasper wrote:
07 May 2018, 12:22
Finally watched The Last Jedi over the weekend.

Kinda wish I hadn't.
A surprisingly common reaction in my experience.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by thoreau » 07 May 2018, 12:57

+1
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by JasonL » 07 May 2018, 13:27

It was a bit above meh, which means its better than all the prequels and Return of the Jedi. Empire, then New Hope, then maybe Rogue One, it's somewhere right after those.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Painboy » 07 May 2018, 13:48

JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:27
It was a bit above meh, which means its better than all the prequels and Return of the Jedi. Empire, then New Hope, then maybe Rogue One, it's somewhere right after those.
What? RoJ has it's issues but it was a far better movie than TLJ. Let not get blinded by Ewok hate here.

I would also add I think ep3 was a better movie (groan inducing Vader "NOOOO!" and all). But I understand if people think the prior two episodes tainted it too much.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 07 May 2018, 13:49

I think empire and rogue one are the best. With rogue one being the best mainly due to the father reveal in empire. Still annoyed by Vader being Luke's father. Shitty writing.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by JasonL » 07 May 2018, 13:52

Painboy wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:48
JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:27
It was a bit above meh, which means its better than all the prequels and Return of the Jedi. Empire, then New Hope, then maybe Rogue One, it's somewhere right after those.
What? RoJ has it's issues but it was a far better movie than TLJ. Let not get blinded by Ewok hate here.

I would also add I think ep3 was a better movie (groan inducing Vader "NOOOO!" and all). But I understand if people think the prior two episodes tainted it too much.
RoJ is not a good movie and it gets extra hate for taking the franchise in entirely the wrong direction after we just saw Empire. Every single thing that happens on Endor is moronic.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Kolohe » 07 May 2018, 14:19

JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:52
Painboy wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:48
JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:27
It was a bit above meh, which means its better than all the prequels and Return of the Jedi. Empire, then New Hope, then maybe Rogue One, it's somewhere right after those.
What? RoJ has it's issues but it was a far better movie than TLJ. Let not get blinded by Ewok hate here.

I would also add I think ep3 was a better movie (groan inducing Vader "NOOOO!" and all). But I understand if people think the prior two episodes tainted it too much.
RoJ is not a good movie and it gets extra hate for taking the franchise in entirely the wrong direction after we just saw Empire. Every single thing that happens on Endor is moronic.


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But that's the thing.

It's Platoon with teddy bears!
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by JD » 07 May 2018, 14:26

JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:52
RoJ is not a good movie and it gets extra hate for taking the franchise in entirely the wrong direction after we just saw Empire. Every single thing that happens on Endor is moronic.
It's not Endor, it's THE FOREST MOON OF ENDOR. Get it right! /geek
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Jadagul » 07 May 2018, 16:39

The problem with The Last Jedi is that the plot makes less sense the more you think about it.

The Rey/Kylo/Luke plotline was really good. The Poe Dameron plotline is really dumb. The Finn plotline makes negative sense, and the entire movie would become better if you just remove every scene that involves it in any way.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Warren » 07 May 2018, 16:39

I'm with Painboy on RotJ. It's fine. However I think he's moonbat crazy WRT RotS. It is decidedly not fine.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by thoreau » 07 May 2018, 16:52

The only thing I'll say for Revenge of the Sith is that the final light saber battle was fun. But not enough fun to justify the rest of the movie.

Frankly, they could have cut everything except that and they would have sold almost as many tickets for substantially lower production costs.

I vacillate between Empire and Rogue One as my favorites. I think my ranking is:
1) Empire
2) Rogue One
3) New Hope
4) Return of the Jedi
5) Phantom Menace
6) Force Awakens
7) Last Jedi
8) Attack of the Clones
9) Revenge of the Sith
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 07 May 2018, 17:00

You guys are dorks.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Jadagul » 07 May 2018, 17:17

Thoreau, that's crazy talk. Revenge of the Sith is easily the best of the prequel trilogy.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by JasonL » 07 May 2018, 17:35

Phantom Menace in the middle of the pack is nuts. I will admit I can't remember distinguishing features of any of the prequels - it's all CGI overload and awfulness and jar jar.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by thoreau » 07 May 2018, 17:38

Phantom Menace didn't leave me bereft of hope the way that the next prequels did. It still had potential as a setup. I liked the grown-up characters played by actual people rather than CGI. That's more than I can say for teenangst Annakin in the later two prequels.

On further reflection I can see putting it in 6th place rather than 5th; Force Awakens did have some merits. But Phantom Menace was still better than any Last Jedi plots not involving Luke.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by lunchstealer » 07 May 2018, 19:44

TPM was truly awful. The only reason you didn't have dread afterwards was that you had hope it could get a lot better. After AotC there was less hope of that, but not because of anything acceptable about TPM but because the shittiness mostly continued.

There were a couple of nuggets of good ideas in there, but the only good characters were Zen Taken Guy and Hippie Renton. And that NEVER CHANGED THROUGH THE PREQUELS, which would've been fine if they hadn't killed Zen Taken Guy. And no, Maul was not a good character. He was a good makeup job. Yoda was almost good for like ten seconds in AotC, but never as good as he was in Empire (hippie renton, by contrast, was arguably a bit better character than washed up hippie Col. Nicholson).

AotC kinda had an interesting bit of watching the good guys basically build the army for the bad guys, knowing that it's doomed to fail and that they're creating the tool of oppression for the Empire. If you cut out pretty much every scene that has Anakin but not Hippie Renton, it becomes a much better movie. Still light on substance and way too flashy and silly, but not vomitously awful like it was with Anakin.

By contrast, there were a lot of dumb bits in TLJ and the whole casino planet thing was completely unnecessary, and there were a lot of missed opportunities, but it was a solid popcorn flick nonetheless and judged on a the-prequels-exist curve, it's fine. Reasonable par with RotJ, maybe a bit below.

I'm a little bit Team Pham re I Am Your Father. Hokey and contrived. Also fuck off with a galactic civilization of trillions and an energy field generated by all living things but literally half the force sensitive people are from one nuclear family and most of the rest are from that one species thing. Nobody in the SW universe should be related to anyone else except MAYBE in situations like Rogue One where the relationship is basically forced into relevance by warring factions trying to manipulate members of the other faction. But oh long lost sekrit babby grows up to accidentally become the hero of the rebellion because a droid that was looking for someone who lived hours away by land speeder happened to end up in sekrit babby's house? Nope on a rope. It's stupid that Luke is Sekrit Babby and not just honest farm kid who gets caught up in galactic war.

When Vader said it in Empire I simply didn't believe him. He's the bad guy, so he's just fucking with Luke's head. Also I wasn't sure he wasn't a robot in the first film, although that was answered in the second film well before the I Am Your Father moment.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by lunchstealer » 07 May 2018, 19:51

On that note,

The hokiness is why I hope that (spoilert) Darth Adam Lanza was telling the truth when he told Daisy that her parents were complete nobodys. The idea that the force is some mystical field generated by all living things but oh yeah half the people who can actually use it at all are in a three-generation family tree out of a galaxy of trillions of sentient life forms... nope. Hokey and cheesey and unnecessary.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Painboy » 07 May 2018, 19:53

Kolohe wrote:
07 May 2018, 14:19
JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:52
Painboy wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:48
JasonL wrote:
07 May 2018, 13:27
It was a bit above meh, which means its better than all the prequels and Return of the Jedi. Empire, then New Hope, then maybe Rogue One, it's somewhere right after those.
What? RoJ has it's issues but it was a far better movie than TLJ. Let not get blinded by Ewok hate here.

I would also add I think ep3 was a better movie (groan inducing Vader "NOOOO!" and all). But I understand if people think the prior two episodes tainted it too much.
RoJ is not a good movie and it gets extra hate for taking the franchise in entirely the wrong direction after we just saw Empire. Every single thing that happens on Endor is moronic.


Yeah, it's Platoon with teddy bears.

But that's the thing.

It's Platoon with teddy bears!
You have to look at the Ewoks from the right perspective. Don't let their cuteness decieve you. They are actually hardcore murderbears. I mean barring Force intervention they were planning on eating Han. All those Stormtrooper helmets they were playing...where were the bodies? In the soup that's where. Why did they have all those big traps ready for the ATSTs? Obviously because they regularly hunt and take down animals that massive. Don't fuck with the murderbears.

Murderbears!

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 07 May 2018, 19:57

I think Daisy Ridley is pretty.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Eric the .5b » 07 May 2018, 20:35

Painboy wrote:
07 May 2018, 19:53
You have to look at the Ewoks from the right perspective. Don't let their cuteness decieve you. They are actually hardcore murderbears. I mean barring Force intervention they were planning on eating Han. All those Stormtrooper helmets they were playing...where were the bodies? In the soup that's where. Why did they have all those big traps ready for the ATSTs? Obviously because they regularly hunt and take down animals that massive. Don't fuck with the murderbears.

Murderbears!
And after all big victory party, every ship leaving Endor after ROTJ was throughly swept for stowaways, because weren't nobody going to let those little monsters offworld.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Mo » 07 May 2018, 23:54

I think I'm the only person that liked the casino scene. Sure it didn't advance the plot once, but at least it was a bit of trope inversion to have the unlikely and wild plan that is played out for way to long actually not work.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Jadagul » 08 May 2018, 00:10

Are you talking about the casino scene specifically, or the Finn plotline in general?

The casino bit annoyed me with the "literally the only possible way to get rich is to be an arms dealer" thing. And also the fact that 2/3 of what happened was dumb.

The plot line as a whole had the reward, as you say, of the wacky plan not actually working at the last minute, even though it was shot like it was going to. Which was an interesting choice. The fact that their plan strictly made things worse was really unsatisfying to me, although I suppose that's a valid filmmaking choice. And the Berenicio del Toro character's bit about how the Resistance and the First Order were the same made no goddamn sense at all.

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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Aresen » 08 May 2018, 00:33

Jadagul wrote:
08 May 2018, 00:10
The casino bit annoyed me with the "literally the only possible way to get rich is to be an arms dealer" thing.
I wanted to throw something at the screen at that moment.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by Shem » 08 May 2018, 01:00

Eric the .5b wrote:
07 May 2018, 20:35
Painboy wrote:
07 May 2018, 19:53
You have to look at the Ewoks from the right perspective. Don't let their cuteness decieve you. They are actually hardcore murderbears. I mean barring Force intervention they were planning on eating Han. All those Stormtrooper helmets they were playing...where were the bodies? In the soup that's where. Why did they have all those big traps ready for the ATSTs? Obviously because they regularly hunt and take down animals that massive. Don't fuck with the murderbears.

Murderbears!
And after all big victory party, every ship leaving Endor after ROTJ was throughly swept for stowaways, because weren't nobody going to let those little monsters offworld.
Well, their homeworld was rendered uninhabitable by massive chunks of Death Star raining down on it like asteroids, so they're not really a concern anymore as such.

Anyone who thinks TLJ was worse than any of the prequel movies has been huffing too much glue. The addition of characters that actually talk like human beings most of the time already put it miles ahead of any of George Lucas' dreck. The fact that it was actually fun was a bonus. Plus, it wasn't nearly so muddled thematically as people are saying. It's a movie about how things go to shit when people try to fuck off and go their own way.
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Re: Powerful Mice in Space (The New Star Wars Gripe Thread)

Post by dhex » 08 May 2018, 07:37

Mo wrote:
07 May 2018, 23:54
I think I'm the only person that liked the casino scene. Sure it didn't advance the plot once, but at least it was a bit of trope inversion to have the unlikely and wild plan that is played out for way to long actually not work.
The result was good because more genre franchise films need to crush dreams to encourage mental flexibility and prevent the loss of tolerance for ambiguity that comes from having no consequences and endless reboots.

But the actual sequence reminded me of the first prequel which was not a good look. Baz lurhman-wars.

Del Toro the nihilist space cowboy was good tho.
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