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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 04 Aug 2010, 13:37

Pham Nuwen wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote:then the writers started depicting Xavier as having banged virtually every female mutant he ran into before starting the X-Men.
Considering his powers . . . that sounds kind of rape-y.
No hint of him doing anything untoward there, though there was a plotline in that continuity where Beast convinced himself that Xavier must have manipulated Storm into falling in love with him in order to increase Beast's loyalty to the team. This resulted in angst, breakup, the Brotherhood finding out that Magneto was in fact not dead but instead an amnesiac in NYC who thought he was a normal human being, Beast leaving the team and soon after apparently getting killed...you know, the usual.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 04 Aug 2010, 13:56

Xavier is a lot more morally dubious in the Ultimate U. He maintains a shadow X-men to spy on Emma Frost and perform other tasks he doesn't want the public team involved in.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 04 Aug 2010, 14:03

Hugh Akston wrote:Xavier is a lot more morally dubious in the Ultimate U. He maintains a shadow X-men to spy on Emma Frost and perform other tasks he doesn't want the public team involved in.
He is and he isn't. They have him do somewhat underhanded things, then they have him be very ethical. Besides, he probably would have managed his breakups better if he were willing to mind-control women.

Or at the very least, the cat wouldn't be named Mystique. :)

I haven't bothered to pick up a collection since they decided to have the idealistic mutant/human integrationist schoolteacher version of Emma Frost suddenly turn into a snobbish, white-lingerie-costume-wearing, Hellfire-Club-member clone of the 616 version.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 04 Aug 2010, 14:14

There are several twists in the Ultimate U that I didn't particularly care for. That ridiculous bit with Dock Ock at the end of the Clone Saga storyline for example. But I'm reading through the Death of Captain America GN right now, and I have to admit, the history of the 616-U has largely passed me by.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 04 Aug 2010, 14:49

I've been picking up New Avengers trades, but I don't think I'll bother with the next one. Before that, the last 616 comic I read was NextWave, so... :)
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 08 Aug 2010, 03:13

The continuity thing is hard for companies to deal with, and neither one really does it right. They just slap patches here and there to keep the popular characters young and relevant. Except that they get more ridiculous and more difficult to catch up with every time.

There are a couple of good ways to handle continuity and character aging:

1) Kill your characters and replace them. Some costumes/identities can become legacies, while others just get dropped for something more modern and relevant. This way, when a character dies he stays dead, and there's a sense of poignancy and loss for the fans.

2) Do a hard reboot of your universe every 25 years. DC did soft reboots in the 60s and 80s, but just ending your universe altogether and restarting it with Issue #1s across the board gives new readers a good jumping on point, and gives new creative teams a chance to reinterpret old characters for modern audiences.
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Shem
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Re: Comics

Post by Shem » 08 Aug 2010, 03:37

I still think they should stop doing ongoing series and just switch to extended limited series, like TV seasons. They can keep putting seasons on when one is successful, have several similar ones running to appeal to different demographics. and let writers make huge changes without people worrying about what long-time fans will think, since they can just stick to the classic flavors. And since each world is self-contained, continuity doesn't stack, so contradictions aren't a problem.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Aug 2010, 14:53

I lean more towards single-creator works. No need to synch up with someone else's continuity - if you want to do five years of issues about a year or two of someone's life ala Y the Last Man, no problem.

On the other hand, I noticed something odd in the last volume of Ultimate Spider-man I picked up, a year or so ago. There was a conversation that suggested that Peter Parker had only been operating as Spider-Man for about a year. As that happened about ten years in real time, yikes...but then, most of the X-Men are depicted as college-age at the oldest, as opposed to approaching their 30s if they'd aged in real-time.
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Shem
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Re: Comics

Post by Shem » 08 Aug 2010, 15:14

Most of the X-men would be well past 40, at least. The original and second squads would be past 60, the New Mutants and their peers would be between 40 and 50. Only the latest crop are approaching their 30s.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Aug 2010, 15:31

Shem wrote:Most of the X-men would be well past 40, at least. The original and second squads would be past 60, the New Mutants and their peers would be between 40 and 50. Only the latest crop are approaching their 30s.
I meant Ultimate continuity, where all of them except Xavier and Wolverine were in their late teens when the title started, back in 2001. (And Wolverine's apparent age bounced between 20 and 30 depending on artist.)
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Shem
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Re: Comics

Post by Shem » 08 Aug 2010, 15:37

Ah, I get it now.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Aug 2010, 15:39

I'm not 100% on the art (it's cartoonier than I like, and I dislike transparent hair), but this bit amuses me: http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/1865590.html
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Aug 2010, 15:47

And poking around that blog, I learn that apparently they decided to stick with the Vietnam veteran for the Punisher in Ultimate Marvel - and that version of Frank Castle is in his early 60s.

(I smell retcon, because he sure doesn't look that old in earlier appearances.)

But anyway, comic book aging is all over the map.

Let's not even mention Little Orphan Annie. :)
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Timothy
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Re: Comics

Post by Timothy » 11 Aug 2010, 00:50

I am not a huge comics guy, but over the last weekend I read the first six trades of The Boys. It's great. Probably one of the best comics I've read since Watchmen.

Basic Premise: Superheroes do how powers, but most of them are pricks, and the CIA needs to keep them in line using folks who also have a little in the way of super powers.
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Shem
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Re: Comics

Post by Shem » 11 Aug 2010, 03:46

The thing I always tell people about The Boys before I recommend it is that Garth Ennis hates the superhero genre. Hates it. The Boys is his attempt to deconstruct the entire style of comic with a nailbat. Some people respond really poorly to that, but it's an awesome series for everyone else.
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Timothy
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Re: Comics

Post by Timothy » 11 Aug 2010, 04:00

Shem wrote:The thing I always tell people about The Boys before I recommend it is that Garth Ennis hates the superhero genre. Hates it. The Boys is his attempt to deconstruct the entire style of comic with a nailbat. Some people respond really poorly to that, but it's an awesome series for everyone else.
It's pretty obvious that Ennis hates the super hero genre. But it's awesome as hell. It's going to be annoying as shit to wait for the next trade to come out.
"i say make some popcorn and give me a blanket to hide this six foot boner i have." --dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 11 Aug 2010, 11:53

On the other hand, Ennis wrote some damn loving Superman bits in relatively recent years.

But then, we're talking about a much better writer than Micah Ian Wright, who managed to be obnoxious writing about cape-killers in a setting where the heroes are openly rather ambiguous at best.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 11 Aug 2010, 12:26

There are a number of writers who have spilled a great deal of ink deconstructing the superhero genre (whether they hate the genre is another question). The actual effect of these stories has been the reinvigoration of the genre as their counter-narratives (and occasionally themselves) are copied and integrated into the mainstream universes.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 11 Aug 2010, 13:30

We've had a good 25+ years of deconstructing superheroes (mixed in with half-assed aping of deconstruction). I plan to read The Boys when I run across it, but I mostly just skip that sort of thing because most writers aren't doing much with it besides going on about how they don't like the genre. (See MIW's run on Stormwatch: Team Achilles, which had Mary Sue spec ops guys on a supposed shoestring budget defeating any superhero or global conspiracy in the setting they ran into.)

My cold response to writers who resent that the superhero genre dominates comics is write other genres. If writers are unwilling to do other genres because they aren't willing to go indie or work for smaller publishers or find that their writing is too crappy for anything but a C-list superhero title, then they should stop bitching.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 23 Sep 2010, 15:35

After reading The Death of Captain America, Civil War, and House of M, I have decided to steer clear of the 616 entirely for the time being.

I'm gonna try out The Walking Dead next.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Comics

Post by Pham Nuwen » 23 Sep 2010, 17:46

Hugh Akston wrote:After reading The Death of Captain America, Civil War, and House of M, I have decided to steer clear of the 616 entirely for the time being.

I'm gonna try out The Walking Dead next.
Excellent choice sir.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 05 Nov 2010, 18:36

I finished the first Walking Dead HC, and am kind of on the fence about continuing. While the art and some of the situations are pretty good, I can't help but feel like the pacing is way to fast and glossy for a grittier, slower-burning, ongoing survival series. Overall I think things are deployed and wrapped far too quickly.

Has anyone read deeper into it? Does it get better?
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Comics

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 05 Nov 2010, 20:15

Hugh Akston wrote:I finished the first Walking Dead HC, and am kind of on the fence about continuing. While the art and some of the situations are pretty good, I can't help but feel like the pacing is way to fast and glossy for a grittier, slower-burning, ongoing survival series. Overall I think things are deployed and wrapped far too quickly.

Has anyone read deeper into it? Does it get better?
Where did that one end (there are several collections out there)?
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Comics

Post by Eric the .5b » 05 Nov 2010, 20:35

I liked the pacing for the Walking Dead comic, though I found it an interesting shift that they're apparently having his finding his wife and kid be the major arc of the TV series.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Comics

Post by Hugh Akston » 05 Nov 2010, 21:08

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:I finished the first Walking Dead HC, and am kind of on the fence about continuing. While the art and some of the situations are pretty good, I can't help but feel like the pacing is way to fast and glossy for a grittier, slower-burning, ongoing survival series. Overall I think things are deployed and wrapped far too quickly.

Has anyone read deeper into it? Does it get better?
Where did that one end (there are several collections out there)?
It ended after they left the farm and just as they had discovered the prison.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

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