Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

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dhex
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by dhex » 17 Aug 2017, 18:44

how is this week's fifth column?
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JasonL
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 17 Aug 2017, 19:04

Kmele is out there in his defense of some of trumps comments.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 17 Aug 2017, 19:05

Like he won't acknowledge that "we all must respect our history" is a dog whistle everyone else can hear.

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dhex
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by dhex » 17 Aug 2017, 19:41

Sigh
"If they make a movie about Bothans pre-ROTJ that is basically a rip off of the Taking of Pelham 123, I would start masturbating in the theater." fffffffunnnngh

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nicole
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 08:20

I mean why would he not think "cherishing our history" is bad? He's not normally this collectivist.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 18 Aug 2017, 09:58

Kmele is making a solid argument. He's acknowledging the...
Actually he makes his argument far more coherently than I can.
The things that come out of Trumps mouth (and fingers) are bad. Kmele is making a "Never Attribute to Malice That Which Is Adequately Explained by Stupidity" argument where stupidity is augmented by egomania, and possibly some other neurosises. Listen to the part where he's allowed to speak for several minutes uninterrupted. I found the big picture perspective particularly on point.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 18 Aug 2017, 10:13

He has this thing like "it's too easy to talk bad about nazis". Well, yeah. They're nazis. The heritage argument is trash. The respect our history argument is trash. Making those arguments is trying desperately for some reason to inject nuance into the white nationalist position. There isn't any nuance worth mentioning, and certainly not any that creates some kind of "there are some fine people in that video and bad people on both sides" equivalency.

Trump made a strong for him statement of condemnation then walked it back. That's not an accident. It's stupid but it can be both stupid and a malevolent appeal to awful people. His stupidity is not an excuse.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 10:15

Warren wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 09:58
Kmele is making a solid argument. He's acknowledging the...
Actually he makes his argument far more coherently than I can.
The things that come out of Trumps mouth (and fingers) are bad. Kmele is making a "Never Attribute to Malice That Which Is Adequately Explained by Stupidity" argument where stupidity is augmented by egomania, and possibly some other neurosises. Listen to the part where he's allowed to speak for several minutes uninterrupted. I found the big picture perspective particularly on point.
To that point: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2488&hilit=track+ch ... 75#p366909

But my previous comment was more just surprise that he wouldn't condemn anyone who was interested in celebrating nationalism.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 18 Aug 2017, 10:38

JasonL wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:13
He has this thing like "it's too easy to talk bad about nazis". Well, yeah. They're nazis. The heritage argument is trash. The respect our history argument is trash. Making those arguments is trying desperately for some reason to inject nuance into the white nationalist position. There isn't any nuance worth mentioning, and certainly not any that creates some kind of "there are some fine people in that video and bad people on both sides" equivalency.

Trump made a strong for him statement of condemnation then walked it back. That's not an accident. It's stupid but it can be both stupid and a malevolent appeal to awful people. His stupidity is not an excuse.
You have this thing like "I think your position is garbage therefore you forfeit your right to be treated as a human being".
Is it possible to support honoring the Robert E Lee without being a racist?
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 18 Aug 2017, 10:40

nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:15
Warren wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 09:58
Kmele is making a solid argument. He's acknowledging the...
Actually he makes his argument far more coherently than I can.
The things that come out of Trumps mouth (and fingers) are bad. Kmele is making a "Never Attribute to Malice That Which Is Adequately Explained by Stupidity" argument where stupidity is augmented by egomania, and possibly some other neurosises. Listen to the part where he's allowed to speak for several minutes uninterrupted. I found the big picture perspective particularly on point.
To that point: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2488&hilit=track+ch ... 75#p366909

But my previous comment was more just surprise that he wouldn't condemn anyone who was interested in celebrating nationalism.
Okay, they are morally equivalent. But the point is what to focus on. By focusing on the evil we are missing the opportunity to make productive change.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Dangerman » 18 Aug 2017, 10:41

We don't honor things like the Confederacy and the bombing of Japanese cities with megaweapons, we observe them with respect for how bad they were. That's not what these statues or 'celebrations of history/heritage' are about. No we shouldn't honor Lee.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 18 Aug 2017, 10:43

Dangerman wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:41
We don't honor things like the Confederacy and the bombing of Japanese cities with megaweapons, we observe them with respect for how bad they were. That's not what these statues or 'celebrations of history/heritage' are about. No we shouldn't honor Lee.
That's not the question. The question is, Is everyone that thinks other than you on this topic necessarily motivated by evil intent?
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Dangerman » 18 Aug 2017, 10:47

Why is someone honoring Robert E. Lee? Why honor? I can observe that he was a historical figure, but marching around his statue with torches is obviously veneration, not a historical interest.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 10:50

Warren wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:43
Dangerman wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:41
We don't honor things like the Confederacy and the bombing of Japanese cities with megaweapons, we observe them with respect for how bad they were. That's not what these statues or 'celebrations of history/heritage' are about. No we shouldn't honor Lee.
That's not the question. The question is, Is everyone that thinks other than you on this topic necessarily motivated by evil intent?
I mean, it's some tribal ass shit, so yes?
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by nicole » 18 Aug 2017, 11:01

Also:
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 18 Aug 2017, 11:05

Warren wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:38
JasonL wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:13
He has this thing like "it's too easy to talk bad about nazis". Well, yeah. They're nazis. The heritage argument is trash. The respect our history argument is trash. Making those arguments is trying desperately for some reason to inject nuance into the white nationalist position. There isn't any nuance worth mentioning, and certainly not any that creates some kind of "there are some fine people in that video and bad people on both sides" equivalency.

Trump made a strong for him statement of condemnation then walked it back. That's not an accident. It's stupid but it can be both stupid and a malevolent appeal to awful people. His stupidity is not an excuse.
You have this thing like "I think your position is garbage therefore you forfeit your right to be treated as a human being".
Is it possible to support honoring the Robert E Lee without being a racist?
I don't think so no. You have to ignore too much context to focus on, as Nicole says, the tribal sht that gives you a white culture boner. You can support honoring a Lee statue without being a white supremacist or a nazi, which would be a different question.

ETA: i'm not sure what parts of being treated like a human being are in question here. Certainly to me that doesn't entail acting like repugnant positions are somehow reasonable.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 18 Aug 2017, 11:17

JasonL wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 11:05
Warren wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:38
JasonL wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:13
He has this thing like "it's too easy to talk bad about nazis". Well, yeah. They're nazis. The heritage argument is trash. The respect our history argument is trash. Making those arguments is trying desperately for some reason to inject nuance into the white nationalist position. There isn't any nuance worth mentioning, and certainly not any that creates some kind of "there are some fine people in that video and bad people on both sides" equivalency.

Trump made a strong for him statement of condemnation then walked it back. That's not an accident. It's stupid but it can be both stupid and a malevolent appeal to awful people. His stupidity is not an excuse.
You have this thing like "I think your position is garbage therefore you forfeit your right to be treated as a human being".
Is it possible to support honoring the Robert E Lee without being a racist?
I don't think so no. You have to ignore too much context to focus on, as Nicole says, the tribal sht that gives you a white culture boner. You can support honoring a Lee statue without being a white supremacist or a nazi, which would be a different question.

ETA: i'm not sure what parts of being treated like a human being are in question here. Certainly to me that doesn't entail acting like repugnant positions are somehow reasonable.
Haven't you been saying "I have no problem with punching nazis" lately?
I know you're okay with forcibly vaccinating children.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 18 Aug 2017, 11:17

nicole wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:50
Warren wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:43
Dangerman wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:41
We don't honor things like the Confederacy and the bombing of Japanese cities with megaweapons, we observe them with respect for how bad they were. That's not what these statues or 'celebrations of history/heritage' are about. No we shouldn't honor Lee.
That's not the question. The question is, Is everyone that thinks other than you on this topic necessarily motivated by evil intent?
I mean, it's some tribal ass shit, so yes?
Then I think you're painting with too broad a brush and in your own way part of the problem, or at least not helping.
Women with strollers are legitimately the worst people, and should, like motorcyclists, not be considered people for liability and criminal purposes. - lunchstealer

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 18 Aug 2017, 13:54

I understand people punching nazis. I don't think it should be legal. I do not support forcible vaccination. I do think if your electively unvaccinated child gets anyone sick you should be held liable for damages.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by lunchstealer » 18 Aug 2017, 15:48

JasonL wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 10:13
He has this thing like "it's too easy to talk bad about nazis". Well, yeah. They're nazis. The heritage argument is trash. The respect our history argument is trash. Making those arguments is trying desperately for some reason to inject nuance into the white nationalist position. There isn't any nuance worth mentioning, and certainly not any that creates some kind of "there are some fine people in that video and bad people on both sides" equivalency.

Trump made a strong for him statement of condemnation then walked it back. That's not an accident. It's stupid but it can be both stupid and a malevolent appeal to awful people. His stupidity is not an excuse.
To me the problem isn't entirely with what he said, but with the circumstances under which he's all cautious reason let's see both sides and when he's full bad hombres and lying losers. And that is when the 'bad' people are basically saying that the strong and powerful shouldn't sweat the small stuff like human rights and not killing your opponents.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Hugh Akston » 18 Aug 2017, 18:32

the Freakonomics episode about the pros and cons of shoes confirms many of my antifo biases.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Eric the .5b » 19 Aug 2017, 06:21

JasonL wrote:
18 Aug 2017, 13:54
I understand people punching nazis. I don't think it should be legal. I do not support forcible vaccination. I do think if your electively unvaccinated child gets anyone sick you should be held liable for damages.
I can kinda sign onto this, so long as we accept 1) self-defense against Nazi violence and 2) punishing parents who allow their kids to get sick and die of preventable diseases.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by JasonL » 19 Aug 2017, 09:05

Welch was pretty great in that ep.

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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by nicole » 19 Aug 2017, 12:55

He was.

I finished it this morning and I have to say, Kmele with Deray was like, exactly why I'm not really a Kmele fan. Like at the end, when Deray says, well money is just a social construct, do you want to get rid of money? Kmele has to just lamely be like, "It's different, it's different," without being able to explain why. He could have said, "Well, some people who really want to end wealth inequalities do want to get rid of money, so if you want to end racial inequalities why don't you want to get rid of race?" I mean, just because Kmele doesn't want to get rid of money doesn't make it not a thing, he should be able to explain why not just like Deray should be able to explain why he wants to continue to see race.
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Re: Podcasts - Watcha listening to?

Post by Warren » 19 Aug 2017, 13:20

nicole wrote:
19 Aug 2017, 12:55
He was.

I finished it this morning and I have to say, Kmele with Deray was like, exactly why I'm not really a Kmele fan. Like at the end, when Deray says, well money is just a social construct, do you want to get rid of money? Kmele has to just lamely be like, "It's different, it's different," without being able to explain why. He could have said, "Well, some people who really want to end wealth inequalities do want to get rid of money, so if you want to end racial inequalities why don't you want to get rid of race?" I mean, just because Kmele doesn't want to get rid of money doesn't make it not a thing, he should be able to explain why not just like Deray should be able to explain why he wants to continue to see race.
Maybe because he wanted to allow Deray more time to speak his mind?
He said "money is a medium of exchange". What is served by repeating that?
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