A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

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Painboy
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Painboy » 06 May 2019, 17:45

Jennifer wrote:
06 May 2019, 17:11
Another, minor, question: they built multiple funeral pyres to burn the bodies of their comrades who died fighting the dead -- but what happened to the VASTLY GREATER number of wight-corpses they fought?
I imagine they had a much bigger less grand pit where they got burned.

Some archeologist a couple thousand years from now is going to wonder what in the hell happened there.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 06 May 2019, 17:58

Painboy wrote:
06 May 2019, 16:49
I actually thought that was one of the better written episodes in awhile.
In all seriousness: I did enjoy much of the "feast" part at the beginning -- it was nice to see people I like finally being happy, at least for a little while -- even though I spent the whole time thinking of a snarky comment I made after the Red Wedding: "Even if you didn't read the books or the Ice and Fire wiki, you should have known something awful was about to happen because we saw, like, five consecutive minutes of Starks being happy, and nobody in Westeros gets to stay that happy for that long unless they're psychopathic sadists."

I also liked how they did Tyrion, Brienne and Jaime in the drinking game. (I suspect -- or maybe hope? -- Jaime is actually planning to kill Cersei, and told Brienne otherwise in a fucked-up attempt to "protect" her, similar to how Tyrion was deliberately cruel to Shae in hope of making her leave Westeros to save her own life.)

But a LOT of the writing was bad, IMO. Like, Tyrion and Co. seem upset that nobody in the North admires Dany as they do ... but, have the people in the north actually been told WHY they ought to admire her (as opposed to merely respecting her strength)? I'm hearing a whole lot of "She has dragons, and a big-ass army -- oh, and trust me, she's also a good person" ... but have the northerners been told what makes her a good person? Like, "She invaded several slave cities solely BECAUSE they were slave cities and she wanted to set the slaves free. She did all this even though those slave cities had no strategic value to her, regarding her plan to take Westeros. Also...."

And that whole business with the dragon being shot down out of the air before the dragon and the fleet are even in sight of each other is plain bullshit, IMO. Even if they waited until the dragons were in sight, it's also bullshit that ONE ballista fired is enough to take down a dragon. At the very least, FFS, have it be something like "Every ship fires ballistas at about the same time, and though many ships are destroyed by dragonfire, the dragon IS brought down."
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 06 May 2019, 18:00

Painboy wrote:
06 May 2019, 17:45
Jennifer wrote:
06 May 2019, 17:11
Another, minor, question: they built multiple funeral pyres to burn the bodies of their comrades who died fighting the dead -- but what happened to the VASTLY GREATER number of wight-corpses they fought?
I imagine they had a much bigger less grand pit where they got burned.

Some archeologist a couple thousand years from now is going to wonder what in the hell happened there.
Heh, I did have a similar thought about future archaeologists, because you know the walking dead will eventually fade back into legend rather than history.

Of course, in the show there's been no indication about the possible future of magic vs. science in this world, but IIRC in the books, weren't the maesters at the Citadel trying to bring about some primitive form of science? It's been so long, I can't remember.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 07 May 2019, 07:25

Pretty much this:

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Warren » 07 May 2019, 10:29

I liked it well enough. I liked the way the apre-battle feast was a mix of "We're still alive, fuck yeah!" and "So now what?".
The only thing I couldn't suspend my disbelief for was "We're going to keep Jon's lineage a secret". Three people can't keep a secret, and more than that knew at the beginning. If Daenerys wanted to keep it a secret, she'd have to kill everyone else that knew, but killing a man's brother and best friend is no way to win his love.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 07 May 2019, 17:28

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Painboy » 08 May 2019, 00:46

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
07 May 2019, 17:28
Image
That hat probably belongs more on Dany. I mean she's an outsider who failed as a ruler everywhere she's been but claims she's a better one than anyone else. She wants to drain the swa...er...break the wheel. She has HUUGE dragons, the biggest you've ever seen. And she might actually be insane.

I see Cersei as more a Hillary type. Constantly disrespected and sore about it. She's murdered or blew up anyone who stood in her way.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Warren » 08 May 2019, 10:02

Painboy wrote:
08 May 2019, 00:46

That hat probably belongs more on Dany. I mean she's an outsider who failed as a ruler everywhere she's been but claims she's a better one than anyone else. She wants to drain the swa...er...break the wheel. She has HUUGE dragons, the biggest you've ever seen. And she might actually be insane.

I see Cersei as more a Hillary type. Constantly disrespected and sore about it. She's murdered or blew up anyone who stood in her way.
Painboy is right.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 09 May 2019, 18:47

Sudden thought: why the hell did the Lord of Light bother bringing Jon Snow back from the dead? Beric was brought back many times because his ultimate purpose in the grand scheme of things was to give his life to save Arya's, so she could kill the Night King. But what vital thing (toward defeating the army of the dead) has Jon Snow done since his resurrection?
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by lunchstealer » 09 May 2019, 20:44

Jennifer wrote:
09 May 2019, 18:47
Sudden thought: why the hell did the Lord of Light bother bringing Jon Snow back from the dead? Beric was brought back many times because his ultimate purpose in the grand scheme of things was to give his life to save Arya's, so she could kill the Night King. But what vital thing (toward defeating the army of the dead) has Jon Snow done since his resurrection?
Got Dany to go north with her dragons so a dragon was killed so the Night King could go all Now I Have A Dragon Ho Ho Ho and burn down the wall so the Night King would be in the Godswood when Arya stabbed him.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 12 May 2019, 16:01

Predictions for tonight's episode: it will be stupid and the writing will suck. 50/50 odds of at least one glaring anachronism even worse than Tyrion's calling Brienne a "virgin" rather than a "maid" or "maiden." Perhaps Tyrion will point out that if Dany attacks King's Landing and non-combatants die, that will be in violation of the Geneva Conventions?
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Painboy » 12 May 2019, 23:32

Did they get Michael Bay to ghost direct this episode? What the hell was that?

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 13 May 2019, 00:02

Painboy wrote:
12 May 2019, 23:32
Did they get Michael Bay to ghost direct this episode? What the hell was that?
THAT was a big steaming pile of shitty writing.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 13 May 2019, 01:11

Know who I feel REALLY bad for, after watching the latest "Game of Thrones?" All the little girls out there whose trendy parents gave them the actual legal birth-certificate names "Daenerys" or "Khaleesi."
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by JasonL » 13 May 2019, 09:42

Ahahaaa! That's ... hilarious. Gotta wait until the plot arc resolves before you go unique kid name. People doing Michael after MJ could claim lots of other Michaels later on. Khaleesi is a harder deal. I gather people are really mad.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 13 May 2019, 09:59

Meh. People gonna people. I'm surprised Dahmer hasn't made more of a comeback.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Ellie » 13 May 2019, 10:26

My condolences to everyone who has been watching GoT since the beginning. I'm not being snarky. It sucks when a show you've put a lot of time into goes off the rails.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Painboy » 13 May 2019, 11:47

Ellie wrote:
13 May 2019, 10:26
My condolences to everyone who has been watching GoT since the beginning. I'm not being snarky. It sucks when a show you've put a lot of time into goes off the rails.
It really shouldn't be a surprise to most though. Ever since season 6 the show was substituting tight writing and character pieces for spectacle (I think I might have even mentioned it in this thread). And even for much of the show I felt the show runners did not entirely understand what made the books so engaging for many. There were certainly lurid things in the books but they were never the focus in the way the show made them. And when the book material ran out they clearly didn't have the ability, or maybe desire, to carry it through to a strong end.

I do wonder if GRRM is just holding on to the books to see what fan reaction is to the show ending, giving him a free test audience. Then he can change the ending to something that isn't going to piss everyone off.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 13 May 2019, 12:58

Painboy wrote:
13 May 2019, 11:47
Ellie wrote:
13 May 2019, 10:26
My condolences to everyone who has been watching GoT since the beginning. I'm not being snarky. It sucks when a show you've put a lot of time into goes off the rails.
It really shouldn't be a surprise to most though. Ever since season 6 the show was substituting tight writing and character pieces for spectacle (I think I might have even mentioned it in this thread). And even for much of the show I felt the show runners did not entirely understand what made the books so engaging for many. There were certainly lurid things in the books but they were never the focus in the way the show made them. And when the book material ran out they clearly didn't have the ability, or maybe desire, to carry it through to a strong end.

I do wonder if GRRM is just holding on to the books to see what fan reaction is to the show ending, giving him a free test audience. Then he can change the ending to something that isn't going to piss everyone off.
Not without more sesasons. Which NOBODY wants. I feel like the last few seasons are the show equivalent to Budweiser. Watered down for mass appeal not taste.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 13 May 2019, 15:01

Painboy wrote:
13 May 2019, 11:47
I do wonder if GRRM is just holding on to the books to see what fan reaction is to the show ending, giving him a free test audience. Then he can change the ending to something that isn't going to piss everyone off.
For me, the problem isn't even how they ended it, but how they GOT to that ending. It's certainly possible for people (or characters) to change so dramatically that they end up completely opposite where they started -- but you need to show those changes, and make them believable. And after spending seven and a half seasons making us think "Hooray for Dany, the breaker of chains," you need more than two episodes of changes to demonstrate "No, actually, she's the new Big Bad."

It wouldn't have been QUITE so bad/disbelievable, IMO, if the Torching of the Innocents were something like "Cersei is in the Red Keep and can't be dislodged; Dany's advisers recommend waiting out a siege, Dany responds 'fuck that' and burns the Keep, which is chockful of innocent peasants." But "The city has surrendered, and Dany decided to murder innocent peasants and goes after them before even touching the Keep?" Pffft.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by JasonL » 13 May 2019, 15:08

I didn't see it but that part seemed jarring after reading about it - after the bell rings and surrender is in place? That makes you a homicidal crazy person and that shouldn't come from nowhere.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 13 May 2019, 15:20

JasonL wrote:
13 May 2019, 15:08
I didn't see it but that part seemed jarring after reading about it - after the bell rings and surrender is in place? That makes you a homicidal crazy person and that shouldn't come from nowhere.
I've seen (on social media) a couple justifications to the effect of "No, it did NOT come out of nowhere; Dany is furious because the people of Westeros don't love her, the way the slaves she freed did; she is punishing them for not rioting against Cersei's rule." But ... I still don't buy it. Not unless the show had already demonstrated "THAT is how badly she reacts to people who don't sufficiently kiss her ass." And, IMO, the fact that the two most recent episodes before that had her briefly say things like "They don't love me here, waaah" is NOT sufficient to explain such a psychotic break. It's like, if you're a character in a long-running story, and it is going to end with you switching from "fervent gun-rights supporter" to "hardcore opponent of the second amendment," someone pointing out "Remember that time three seasons ago when Jason said 'Hey, that one gun-owning guy there is a JERK!!' No WONDER he was going to turn anti-gun toward the end; it's so OBVIOUS!" is not REMOTELY enough to explain such a massive 180-degree turnaround in your character.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 13 May 2019, 15:31

It would probably all make more sense to me now if I hadn't missed the episode where the guy in the leather jacket water skis over a shark.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Kolohe » 13 May 2019, 15:44

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
13 May 2019, 15:31
It would probably all make more sense to me now if I hadn't missed the episode where the guy in the leather jacket water skis over a shark.
Appropos of nothing, it was always funny how fucking defensive Garry Marshall was of that scene.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 13 May 2019, 16:03

Also: bad as Dany's sudden character devolution was, Grey Worm's is perhaps even worse. He attacked soldiers who had already surrendered and thrown down their weapons??! I don't buy it -- I get his rage over Missandei, and had Grey Worm gone to town on one of the people who were up on the wall with Cersei when Missandei was beheaded that might be believable -- but going after ordinary soldiers who had already surrendered? He himself was a former slave-soldier who surely knows "Individual soldiers are not responsible for whatever bullshit their army leaders are trying to pull--especially not after those soldiers ALREADY SURRENDERED."
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