A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

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Jennifer
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 25 Apr 2019, 17:52

Warren wrote:
25 Apr 2019, 09:50
My prediction is that so much of the cast is going to die, that predictions should focus on who lives.
In early seasons, when the show more accurately reflected the books, one of the main themes was "This is a deconstruction of various tropes, including 'the hero always comes through in the end.'" That's why stuff like Ned Stark's beheading was considered such a gut-punch.

However, the show has since done away with that. and started putting "plot armor" on certain characters (not even counting Jon Snow's resurrection): Arya shrugging off a stab to the gut, Gendry (IIRC) running from north of the wall to Dragonstone at supersonic speeds so Daenerys and her dragons could rescue the men on the frozen lake surrounded by the dead, etc.

So if they were still in "Anyone can die, even the heroes" mode, I'd say Winterfell will surely fall and everyone in it dies. But since the show does seem to adhere now to at least SOME traditional "good-guy-wins" tropes, I kinda doubt Daenerys AND Jon Snow AND all remaining Starks including Bran AND everyone else is going to die.

Regarding Grey Worm and Missandei: I'd say one of them will live, but of course they'll first suffer some awful trauma over and above having their true love killed by zombies.

Bran will live, at least for the next episode, again for plot-armor reasons: whatever the hell role the Three-Eyed Raven plays in the story, it won't be wrapped up by the end of that episode.

Daenerys will also live because IIRC wasn't one of her Undying visions of her in the Iron Throne room, only in winter ruins? So she has to live long enough to get to King's Landing.

Where Tyrion, Varys and non-combatants in the crypt are concerned, I think it will be all or nothing: all of them live, or none of them do. Or, at most, one lives, saved in the nick of time.

That said: if I had to gamble my money on ANY of these predictions, I would only bet sums I won't mind losing.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by dead_elvis » 26 Apr 2019, 15:16

That episode was total filler, 90% of that would have been cut if we'd had one regular-sized last season instead of two shorter seasons.

Is there such a thing as gratuitous character development? That's what Arya's and Gendry's roll in the hay felt like. Unless she gets pregnant from that, in which case ok then that kid would have pretty awesome parents. I feel like previous hookups at least had some element to it that affects the game pieces on the board- Jaime and Cersei was needed to kick off the story with Bran, Sansa's rape at least established that Ramsay was being turned into a bad guy enemy, Jon Snow/Ygritte was tied in with The North/Freefolk loyalty storyline, Rob hooking up for love instead of politics had consequences, etc. All that has changed from Arya/Gendry is that now they aren't virgins. No consequences, affects nothing else on the show. Even Tyrion hooking up with prositutes had more consequence.

Mostly I was disappointed that in typical Bildungsroman fashion, Arya didn't end the scene with "what, that's it? That's what all the fuss was about?"
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 26 Apr 2019, 17:20

dead_elvis wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 15:16
Mostly I was disappointed that in typical Bildungsroman fashion, Arya didn't end the scene with "what, that's it? That's what all the fuss was about?"
I dunno -- the look on her face when she was laying next to the sleeping Gendry afterwards MIGHT be interpreted thusly....

Come to think of it, the whole purpose of that scene might be to give Arya extra reason to be sad if Gendry dies.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Warren » 26 Apr 2019, 19:24

I thought it was good character development. It was just tame by GoT standards.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 26 Apr 2019, 20:10

In light of the sex scene, I don't know if that javelin-weapon Arya asked Gendry to make for her will actually be important to the plot later, or if that was just an excuse for the showrunners to have them talking together.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Warren » 26 Apr 2019, 20:21

Jennifer wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 20:10
In light of the sex scene, I don't know if that javelin-weapon Arya asked Gendry to make for her will actually be important to the plot later, or if that was just an excuse for the showrunners to have them talking together.
I don't know about "important to the plot", but I'm sure she's going to get her bad-ass on with it. She's been training in the arts of poking holes in people since before she first left Winterfell (remember her prowess with the bow?). She had that weapon made to measure to maximize her hole poking abilities.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 26 Apr 2019, 21:09

I actually wonder if they're not going to somehow have Arya parallel the Night King's bringing down a dragon with a javelin. Except personally, I'm very very skeptical that the NK or the dragon-wight will be in the battle at Winterfell.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 26 Apr 2019, 22:10

Jennifer wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 21:09
I actually wonder if they're not going to somehow have Arya parallel the Night King's bringing down a dragon with a javelin. Except personally, I'm very very skeptical that the NK or the dragon-wight will be in the battle at Winterfell.
That's what I was thinking. The javelin thingie.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Warren » 26 Apr 2019, 22:19

Here's the way it's going to go down.
Brandon lures the Night King into the Godswood. The trap is sprung! But the Night King is prepared. He slips loose of the snare and approaches Brandon, raising his arm to make the killing blow. When Brandon leaps up and kills the Night King with a dagger of Valyrian steel. But How? Brandon takes off his face and TWIST reveals that he is actually Arya. But how did she get Brandon's face? "I killed him." "You killed your own brother?" "He's not my Brother." "Whatever he became he was still Brandon." "Yes, but" DOUBLE TWIST "I am not Arya" and reveals that she's actually the waif from the house of the faceless men.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 26 Apr 2019, 23:35

Warren wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 22:19
Here's the way it's going to go down.
Brandon lures the Night King into the Godswood. The trap is sprung! But the Night King is prepared. He slips loose of the snare and approaches Brandon, raising his arm to make the killing blow. When Brandon leaps up and kills the Night King with a dagger of Valyrian steel. But How? Brandon takes off his face and TWIST reveals that he is actually Arya. But how did she get Brandon's face? "I killed him." "You killed your own brother?" "He's not my Brother." "Whatever he became he was still Brandon." "Yes, but" DOUBLE TWIST "I am not Arya" and reveals that she's actually the waif from the house of the faceless men.
So the waif banged the blacksmith dude?
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by lunchstealer » 27 Apr 2019, 00:48

Pham Nuwen wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 23:35
Warren wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 22:19
Here's the way it's going to go down.
Brandon lures the Night King into the Godswood. The trap is sprung! But the Night King is prepared. He slips loose of the snare and approaches Brandon, raising his arm to make the killing blow. When Brandon leaps up and kills the Night King with a dagger of Valyrian steel. But How? Brandon takes off his face and TWIST reveals that he is actually Arya. But how did she get Brandon's face? "I killed him." "You killed your own brother?" "He's not my Brother." "Whatever he became he was still Brandon." "Yes, but" DOUBLE TWIST "I am not Arya" and reveals that she's actually the waif from the house of the faceless men.
So the waif banged the blacksmith dude?
Naw that was the faceless man.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Warren » 27 Apr 2019, 00:52

lunchstealer wrote:
27 Apr 2019, 00:48
Pham Nuwen wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 23:35
Warren wrote:
26 Apr 2019, 22:19
Here's the way it's going to go down.
Brandon lures the Night King into the Godswood. The trap is sprung! But the Night King is prepared. He slips loose of the snare and approaches Brandon, raising his arm to make the killing blow. When Brandon leaps up and kills the Night King with a dagger of Valyrian steel. But How? Brandon takes off his face and TWIST reveals that he is actually Arya. But how did she get Brandon's face? "I killed him." "You killed your own brother?" "He's not my Brother." "Whatever he became he was still Brandon." "Yes, but" DOUBLE TWIST "I am not Arya" and reveals that she's actually the waif from the house of the faceless men.
So the waif banged the blacksmith dude?
Naw that was the faceless man.
It was no one.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 27 Apr 2019, 20:40

Image
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 27 Apr 2019, 20:40

BEND THE KNEE YOU FUCKS!!!
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 28 Apr 2019, 22:36

Speaking as one who never cared for extended battle or fight scenes: I actually thought that was kind of boring.

Glad the Night King is gone, of course, though it almost seemed "too easy," if "all" you had to do was stab him with dragonglass or Valyrian steel. And now, given that political issues are the only story issues unresolved, I wonder if the "bittersweet" ending GRR Martin promised will turn out to be: the dead are defeated, but Cersei keeps the Iron Throne and the good guys lose.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 28 Apr 2019, 23:15

Jennifer wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 22:36
Speaking as one who never cared for extended battle or fight scenes: I actually thought that was kind of boring.

Glad the Night King is gone, of course, though it almost seemed "too easy," if "all" you had to do was stab him with dragonglass or Valyrian steel. And now, given that political issues are the only story issues unresolved, I wonder if the "bittersweet" ending GRR Martin promised will turn out to be: the dead are defeated, but Cersei keeps the Iron Throne and the good guys lose.
The dothraki charge and Arya fighting in the narrow halls were super high tension moments. Jon fighting his way throughout the castle before the very end was also really well done moments.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 28 Apr 2019, 23:21

Pham Nuwen wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 23:15
Jennifer wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 22:36
Speaking as one who never cared for extended battle or fight scenes: I actually thought that was kind of boring.

Glad the Night King is gone, of course, though it almost seemed "too easy," if "all" you had to do was stab him with dragonglass or Valyrian steel. And now, given that political issues are the only story issues unresolved, I wonder if the "bittersweet" ending GRR Martin promised will turn out to be: the dead are defeated, but Cersei keeps the Iron Throne and the good guys lose.
The dothraki charge and Arya fighting in the narrow halls were super high tension moments. Jon fighting his way throughout the castle before the very end was also really well done moments.
The episode definitely had its moments -- I liked Melisandre lighting the swords, and the way they showed the flaming swords slowly winking out in the distance was good and eerie (followed by the "oh shit" moment of, what would make Jorah and Dothraki retreat like that?) -- and a few other moments too, but the scenes where it's just fighting and fighting and fighting got dull. I played a game on my phone for part of it.

How much of Daenerys' army is left, anyway? Does she have enough to fight Cersei?
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 28 Apr 2019, 23:30

Jennifer wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 23:21
Pham Nuwen wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 23:15
Jennifer wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 22:36
Speaking as one who never cared for extended battle or fight scenes: I actually thought that was kind of boring.

Glad the Night King is gone, of course, though it almost seemed "too easy," if "all" you had to do was stab him with dragonglass or Valyrian steel. And now, given that political issues are the only story issues unresolved, I wonder if the "bittersweet" ending GRR Martin promised will turn out to be: the dead are defeated, but Cersei keeps the Iron Throne and the good guys lose.
The dothraki charge and Arya fighting in the narrow halls were super high tension moments. Jon fighting his way throughout the castle before the very end was also really well done moments.
The episode definitely had its moments -- I liked Melisandre lighting the swords, and the way they showed the flaming swords slowly winking out in the distance was good and eerie (followed by the "oh shit" moment of, what would make Jorah and Dothraki retreat like that?) -- and a few other moments too, but the scenes where it's just fighting and fighting and fighting got dull. I played a game on my phone for part of it.

How much of Daenerys' army is left, anyway? Does she have enough to fight Cersei?
It was mostly dull. Best scene was arya sneaking through the library.

And no. Her army is gone. But she has a dragon.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 29 Apr 2019, 00:12

Pham Nuwen wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 23:15
Her army is gone. But she has a dragon.
So, thinking back to Bran's (IIRC) vision of a single dragon shadow flying over King's Landing, perhaps THAT is what it will be.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 29 Apr 2019, 01:37

Well, we won't know what's left of the armies of the living until daybreak but when word gets out what happened to the Night King I'd guess Arya could have what's left of it for the asking. Jon proved largely inconsequential, as usual. For an extended episode, I was surprised how few major characters were killed. Theon. Okay, who else? Jorah was always a B-lister and as much as we all liked the girl who ended up killing the zombie giant, well, it's not like she was going to end up on the Iron Throne.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by lunchstealer » 29 Apr 2019, 12:22

A bunch of text so the preview on Tapatalk doesn't show the spoilers in my main post because that almost got me when I took the dogs out last night.

Also Arya just jumping out of nowhere like that was very Deus ex machina. I know she's a murderbot on par with the Terminator or a small cat, but how does she get past the whole array of White Walkers and their several dozen surviving wights in the Godswood? I know she dumped a bunch of points into sneak, but that's like every single one missing their perception check.

And why was Bran even important? Why did the Night King focus so exclusively on him? He had almost no part in the water with the dead except to be a rolling macguffin.

The Night Kimg laughing off a prolonged point-blank blast from Drogon was a good holy shit moment though.

Overall I feel like the dead being straight up defeated at the first real battle south of the wall was anticlimactic. It was a bit too easy and at least one more Stark needs to die this season. Certainly Grey Worm, Brienne, Jaime, Tyrion, The Hound, and Sam should have had a lower survival rate. I mean srsly the defenders probably took between 50% 99% casualties, but like five named characters died and two that ever made
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by dead_elvis » 29 Apr 2019, 13:54

Thought it was good. Good dread, good pacing. The opening charge seemed like stupid strategy but was dramatically excellent. Only thing to me that sucked was, once again, the named characters being protected, people like Brienne and Jaime and Sam you'd see getting for sure murdered and then miraculously they show up again later.
lunchstealer wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 12:22
And why was Bran even important? Why did the Night King focus so exclusively on him? He had almost no part in the water with the dead except to be a rolling macguffin.
Not getting a little more Night King/3Eyed Raven interaction or explanation was a big letdown. I feel like they fooled us into thinking the stakes were high when now we're left wondering what the stakes were at all.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Jennifer » 29 Apr 2019, 16:39

lunchstealer wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 12:22
Also Arya just jumping out of nowhere like that was very Deus ex machina. I know she's a murderbot on par with the Terminator or a small cat, but how does she get past the whole array of White Walkers and their several dozen surviving wights in the Godswood? I know she dumped a bunch of points into sneak, but that's like every single one missing their perception check.
The hell of it is, is would've been SUPER-easy for the show to get around that: have a shuffling wight close to the Night King take its face off, and boom! It's Arya.
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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by JasonL » 29 Apr 2019, 16:40

That's not how you spell Nic Cage.

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Re: A Game of ... THEY KILLED WHO?!?!? (hbo spoilers)

Post by Pham Nuwen » 29 Apr 2019, 17:57

JasonL wrote:
29 Apr 2019, 16:40
That's not how you spell Nic Cage.
Bees?
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