Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

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thoreau
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by thoreau » 10 Jul 2015, 13:05

Hugh Akston wrote:So basically stay out of gator-infested waters and don't approach anything reptilian on land that is bigger than you and you should be okay.
Oh, so it's the victim's fault if the gator attacks? Not Okay!!!!
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Taktix®
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Taktix® » 10 Jul 2015, 13:14

the innominate one wrote:I agree it's been demonstrated that some humans can outrun a horse over distance. The immediate question is humans vs. crocodilians (includes alligators and caiman).
Dunno how reputable this site is, ut: http://crocodilian.com/cnhc/cbd-faq-q4.htm

Relevant Passages:
So, now you have an idea of how crocodiles can run. But how quickly can they run? Most crocodiles can achieve speeds of around 12 to 14 kph for short periods, which is somewhat slower than a fit human can run. Don't believe the hype - if you're reasonably fit, you can definitely outrun a crocodile! Even faster are galloping crocodiles, and Australian freshwater crocodiles have been clocked at just over 17 kph over distances of perhaps 20 to 30 metres before they begin to tire. In these cases, the crocodile is running away from a threat - only certain extinct species of terrestrial crocodyliforms regularly hunted using a similar gait, which perhaps explains its origins.

However, crocodiles can accelerate much faster than this over very short distances by exploding into action - I have measured adult saltwater crocodiles (around 4 metres total length) moving at 12 metres per second for a quarter of a second, which is long enough to capture prey standing within one body length before it even has time to react. This is where crocodiles excel - launching themselves into motion from a standing start, hoping to cover the short distance between themselves and their prey before the prey can react. This isn't running, however, because the crocodile cannot maintain this acceleration for more than a very brief instant.

Bear in mind that crocodiles do not normally chase their prey - their typical hunting strategy is one of surprise, lunging at prey and capturing it in a single fluid movement. Secondly, crocodiles have a relatively low stamina and their physiology does not permit sustained exercise. When a crocodile runs, it is nearly always away from a potential threat and into the water (see photo). Adult males and females defending their territory or a nest may pursue an intruder, but this is normally over a short distance until the intruder has retreated a sufficient distance. Be aware that crocodilians are not the sluggish creatures they are often portrayed to be, and can move very rapidly when they need to. However, they can not run around at speeds most cheetahs would be proud of.
Last edited by Taktix® on 10 Jul 2015, 13:15, edited 1 time in total.
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tr0g
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by tr0g » 10 Jul 2015, 13:14

I have no theory to back this up, just some practical experience. Snakes and crocs are fast at their 'strike' move, i.e. the lunge and bite. They are, to a broad generalization, too goddamned fast for you to react to within the range of that move. So, stay far enough away and you should be fine. The catch is what does far enough away mean. Again, broadly speaking, farther than you'd think. A coiled up full-grown rattlesnake can get out to 5-6 feet, no problem. Gators have more mass, and are thus more constrained, but have surprising reach.

Hugh's answer is indeed the correct one. Don't go in the water with the gator, and give the critters lots of space on land and you'll be fine.

ETA: I see Taktix's source backs me up -
I have measured adult saltwater crocodiles (around 4 metres total length) moving at 12 metres per second for a quarter of a second, which is long enough to capture prey standing within one body length before it even has time to react. This is where crocodiles excel - launching themselves into motion from a standing start, hoping to cover the short distance between themselves and their prey before the prey can react.
That's a lot of snakes, too. And holy shit, 4 metres? That's a big damn lizard.
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the innominate one
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 10 Jul 2015, 13:20

Cool.
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the innominate one
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 10 Jul 2015, 13:23

Snakes will rarely attack humans. Don't fuck with them and they won't fuck with you. I'm far more concerned about being attacked by a gator or croc. I don't usually fuck with them, but for various jobs I've had to be deep in a swamp by myself during breeding season. Prime time for a gator to take umbrage.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Randroid 2.0 » 10 Jul 2015, 13:25

thoreau wrote:
Hugh Akston wrote:So basically stay out of gator-infested waters and don't approach anything reptilian on land that is bigger than you and you should be okay.
Oh, so it's the victim's fault if the gator attacks? Not Okay!!!!
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Taktix®
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Taktix® » 10 Jul 2015, 13:33

the innominate one wrote:Snakes will rarely attack humans. Don't fuck with them and they won't fuck with you. I'm far more concerned about being attacked by a gator or croc. I don't usually fuck with them, but for various jobs I've had to be deep in a swamp by myself during breeding season. Prime time for a gator to take umbrage.
Yes.

Around here, every once in a while a croc or two ventures up the canals into suburbia, and a lot of people (usually of a class that can't afford to take organized fishing trips) go fishing in these canals. Not surprisingly, people get jumped by gators from time to time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... _by_decade

My favorite (from 2007):
A man fleeing police by jumping into a retention pond adjacent to the Miccosukee Resort and Convention Center was killed by a 9-foot 3-inch (2.8 m) alligator according to the Miami-Dade County Medical Examiners office.
Others: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/0 ... 65247.html

This one is within a mile of my new apartment: http://m.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/ga ... ion/nLtZZ/

I suppose you can see why I don't go camping anymore!
Last edited by Taktix® on 10 Jul 2015, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
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the innominate one
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 10 Jul 2015, 13:35

That's why getting killed by crocs and gators are among Archer's three biggest fears.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by lunchstealer » 10 Jul 2015, 20:59

Taktix® wrote:
Mo wrote:It does not matter. If you escape the initial attack, you should be able to easily escape with any sort of sprint.
Yes, this.

They can run fast, but only in short bursts. In fact (and TIO can probably back me up on this) most of Zod's creatures are built for quick sprints rather than endurance, save for canines and humans, which is one of the reasons we get along so well...
Mo wrote:
"I have a 1-year-old, a 3-year-old and a 14-year-old who swim out here," he told the affiliate. "He was just too big."
The gators will get revenge and turn this into interspecies Hatfield and McCoys
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Hugh Akston » 30 Nov 2015, 21:19

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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 30 Nov 2015, 21:26

I've heard of turducken, but not pigeolican.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by JasonL » 01 Dec 2015, 11:41

It's nature like this that makes me okay with foie gras.

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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Rachel » 01 Dec 2015, 13:26

Did I ever show you guys this?

https://rachelnotrebecca.shutterfly.com/pictures/9

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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Warren » 01 Dec 2015, 13:34

JasonL wrote:It's nature like this that makes me okay with foie gras.
My understanding of foie gras is that the twitterpation over it is so much humbug. I think there's some notion that the goose is being mistreated. Which is not to say the goose is healthy. But I don't see any cruelty in foie gras beyond any other livestock raised for slaughter.
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the innominate one
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 01 Dec 2015, 13:38

The geese are force fed to make the liver more fatty and improve the taste of the foie gras. What did you think the objection was? Cattle aren't force fed. Nor are pigs or chickens.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by JasonL » 01 Dec 2015, 15:02

Gavage is force feeding, but fowl of most kinds engage in similar behavior all the time. If you think force feeding is always torturous, you will consider fois gras unethical. Many people think modern gavage looks like the PETA commercials, which it really doesn't. Plastic flexible tubes deposit a cup of food and they shake it down and waddle on.

I have no concerns personally but do not fault people who do except to the degree they misrepresent the process.

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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Warren » 01 Dec 2015, 15:19

That's what I'm getting at. I've no doubt that ducks and geese have been cruelly treated for the sake of foie gras. Much as chickens have been for the sake of chicken meat. And I applaud the animal activists that brought attention to those appalling conditions. And because of that the industry is changing it's practices. Which get's to what I was saying about foie gras. It isn't necessarily a cruel thing, so I don't see any reason to single it out.

I do miss white veal though.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by dbcooper » 03 Dec 2015, 20:28

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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 03 Dec 2015, 20:29

Admittedly, geese are bastards. But I hear two wrongs don't make a right.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Hugh Akston » 15 Feb 2016, 14:19

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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Hugh Akston » 25 Feb 2016, 20:48

Red Pandas: the possibly less lame cousin to Giant Pandas?
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by JasonL » 25 Feb 2016, 21:41

Way less lame. Way.

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Rachel
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by Rachel » 26 Feb 2016, 10:26

Red pandas > regular pandas.

But you knew I would say that.
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the innominate one
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by the innominate one » 26 Feb 2016, 11:40

Would you find red pandas so great if they were named Asian raccoons? Phylogenetically, that's basically what they are.
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Re: Heroes and zeroes of the animal kingdom

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 26 Feb 2016, 11:42

the innominate one wrote:Would you find red pandas so great if they were named Asian raccoons? Phylogenetically, that's basically what they are.
Are they considered vermin?

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