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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 22 Oct 2018, 00:08

Ellie wrote:
21 Oct 2018, 23:08
Tonight I'm watching (with equal parts interest and hateful judgment)
This episode's buyer wears 300 pounds of turquoise jewelry, works as an "equine artist" painting hideous pictures of leering horse heads, and is recovering from Lyme disease (oh yeah I am so sure). I hate her so much :lol: :lol: :lol:
"NB stands for nota bene do not @ me" - nicole

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Highway
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Highway » 22 Oct 2018, 07:10

And her budget for a house is probably stated at $600,000, knowing House Hunters shows...
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Warren
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Warren » 22 Oct 2018, 09:01

The whole tiny house movement makes me :roll:
The thing where they gush about how much they want to live in a dollhouse. The worst is when the guy that built it goes “and here’s how you change your table into a bed” and it takes ten minutes and you have to put the cushions outside while you’re doing it, or “here’s where I used up 2 cubic feet of the 5 cubic feet under the stairs for storage, just don’t try to put anything bigger than a coffee cup in theses cubbyholes” and they’re all like “oh how clever”
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JasonL
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by JasonL » 22 Oct 2018, 10:22

It's useful prep for hyperdense future jadagul wants us to have.

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 22 Oct 2018, 11:02

Warren wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 09:01
The whole tiny house movement makes me :roll:
The thing where they gush about how much they want to live in a dollhouse. The worst is when the guy that built it goes “and here’s how you change your table into a bed” and it takes ten minutes and you have to put the cushions outside while you’re doing it, or “here’s where I used up 2 cubic feet of the 5 cubic feet under the stairs for storage, just don’t try to put anything bigger than a coffee cup in theses cubbyholes” and they’re all like “oh how clever”
Hahaha, I could write a NOVEL of snark about the tiny house movement.

The obsession with lofts, for instance. If you're going to be genuinely mobile, towing it around with a truck, then I'll grand there's a maximal width and length to work with. (Although actual RVs and travel trailers don't usually have lofts.) A bed accessible only by a ladder sounds dreamy until you have to navigate it with a cast because you sprained your wrist or ankle, or while drunk, or when you get diarrhea in the middle of the night ... have fun with that! Why not just make your house a little bigger and have a real bedroom? Because that doesn't look cool enough?

Oh, and the COMPLETE LACK OF STORAGE in the kitchens. Holy crap. I don't even cook these days (thanks, troublesome fetus!) and I'm blown away by the total lack of pantry space. People shitting themselves over wanting a full-size fridge and four-burner stove, but there's a single cabinet that's supposed to hold all their dishes and utensils AND pantry supplies? I guess you'll be eating air for dinner again, but at least you can saute it on your giant stove and then chill it in your giant fridge!

Open shelving everywhere, too. If you're not REALLY mobile -- if you're just going to plop your tiny house on your parents' land, which, eyeroll -- I guess it doesn't matter, but one episode showed a family buying a converted school bus and the kitchen was all open shelving! How the hell is that going to work once you get on the road? I was clutching all my tiny pearls.

My friend (who's even more down on it than I am) summed it up best -- "We already had tiny houses and tiny house communities. They're called trailer parks. But that's not glamorous and trendy enough for these hipsters so they have to act like they invented simplicity."

I will confess to a true love of / fascination with people who do "stealth camping" in unmarked converted box trucks. I think it taps into the perfect mix of living off the grid (and the radar) while still having access to city comforts. I keep trying to sell David on the idea ("Think of all the cons we could go to!") but he is unmoved. He's too in love with indoor plumbing, I guess. Softy.
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Mo
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Mo » 22 Oct 2018, 11:53

Image
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Andrew
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Andrew » 22 Oct 2018, 11:59

Ellie wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 11:02
I will confess to a true love of / fascination with people who do "stealth camping" in unmarked converted box trucks. I think it taps into the perfect mix of living off the grid (and the radar) while still having access to city comforts. I keep trying to sell David on the idea ("Think of all the cons we could go to!") but he is unmoved. He's too in love with indoor plumbing, I guess. Softy.
In Colorado, I ran into a retired couple with a Ford Econoline van that they had converted into a stealth camper. Also had a 4wd drivetrain and appropriate tires, which gave it away a little bit. However, when the pop-top was down (and they did have enough room to sleep without using it), it wasn't too remarkable looking. I was envious.
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Pham Nuwen » 22 Oct 2018, 12:12

My dream is to buy property in Durango and Frisco out here. Then put down tiny houses. I will Airbnb them with the advert basically stating how minimalistic you are when you stay there. The word cozy will be used multiple times. A picture of buddha will be somewhere in the ad.

I will rake in piles of money.
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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 22 Oct 2018, 12:49

For exteriors, you need one to look like an ultramodern metal box, one to look like a tiny cottage, and one to look like a log cabin (these are the three looks that everyone fights over). Make sure they have a deck or large porch because god fucking forbid you put a lawn chair down on the grass like a common person. (If you can get a roof deck, EVEN BETTER.)

Interiors should be wood everywhere. Beetle kill pine if you can get it; tiny house people are super gay for that. Ladder to loft with vaulted ceiling. Four-burner gas stove in kitchen. Cowboy tub and regular sink in the bathroom. Don't put the bathroom door next to the kitchen, that's too icky for tiny house people. No need to worry about storage space, nobody else does apparently. Unless it's really twee storage like a bookshelf ladder. Lots and lots of windows because tiny house people are exhibitionists I guess. Lots of open shelving and Mason jars. As much living room seating as you can cram in there "for entertaining." Dining area that cleverly pulls down/out of somewhere else, no matter how much of a pain it is, the more ingenious a transformation the better. (Edited to add: oh, and a throw pillow that says "Home Sweet Home.")

In your ad, be sure to include the catchphrase of "valuing experiences, not things."

You'll make a mint.
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Jadagul
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jadagul » 22 Oct 2018, 15:37

JasonL wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 10:22
It's useful prep for hyperdense future jadagul wants us to have.
The whole point of allowing more development is so that people can live in the city and still have a reasonable space to live in.

There's no reason you can't have a dense apartment building with four-bed three-bath apartments with large kitchens. But if development space is limited, people can't afford those and we have to live in shitty studios instead.

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JasonL
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by JasonL » 22 Oct 2018, 15:58

Is there any large metropolis where that's the case anywhere in the world? I don't it really ever works out that way. Development restrictions are one force, but there are lots of others including cost per unit to construct as you go vertical and incentive to maximize any given footprint that I think tie your hands.

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Mo
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Mo » 22 Oct 2018, 16:05

I was able to find a number of 3-4 bedroom flats in London. Granted, they weren’t the norm, but they weren’t rare.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Eric the .5b » 22 Oct 2018, 16:18

Ellie wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 11:02
I will confess to a true love of / fascination with people who do "stealth camping" in unmarked converted box trucks.
That's probably more floor space than in a lot of the "tiny houses", at least the ones that are just glorified trailers.

I could imagine living in one of those "just fits in a standard shipping container" abodes. Just. And not with cats; I'd feel like a monster for confining them to such a small space.
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JasonL
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by JasonL » 22 Oct 2018, 16:24

Mo wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 16:05
I was able to find a number of 3-4 bedroom flats in London. Granted, they weren’t the norm, but they weren’t rare.
How does it work there - are they leased or owned or rented or what?

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Jadagul
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jadagul » 22 Oct 2018, 16:46

JasonL wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 16:24
Mo wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 16:05
I was able to find a number of 3-4 bedroom flats in London. Granted, they weren’t the norm, but they weren’t rare.
How does it work there - are they leased or owned or rented or what?
Every major metro area has some large apartments. (The point of the Manhattan penthouse suites is that you get an entire fucking floor of the building to yourself sometimes). The problem is that they're expensive.

But if you allow more development, the same amount of space will cost less money. (Because the supply will increase and be cheaper to provide, and thus the equilibrium price will drop). You'll never get the costs down to the same thing it would cost in the suburbs. As you say, building up is genuinely more expensive. But there's a big difference between the same amount of space costing three times as much or ten times as much.

I'm currently living in a 2.5 bedroom, 2 bathroom apartment in a nice building in a nice part of town for a bit under 3k a month. You're never going to get that down to the, like, $7-800 a month it would cost to get a 3-bedroom house in Ames, or whatever. (That house will have way more yard, but also way less in terms of immediately available service; I have a doorman to collect packages, and during the day I can get maintenance into my apartment in under twenty minutes for free). But getting it down from 3k to 2k would be a huge win for everyone.

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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 22 Oct 2018, 17:08

Even if I could imagine some alt-universe version of myself that neither had nor wanted ANY books or decorative knick-knacks and thingamajigs, and also didn't need to cook or store any food because everyone has Star Trek-style food replicators (or because I'm rich enough to eat every single meal from a restaurant), there's still no way in hell I'd want to live in a "tiny house" because my childhood vacations vaccinated me against that -- my family had one of those camper-trailers where everything converts into something else, and while that IS a good way to save money on vacations (once you pay the cost of the trailer and related equipment, staying in trailer-campgrounds is a hell of a lot cheaper than staying in hotels, especially if you have kids), it also taught me that this is NOT a way I'd want to live full-time. Plus, I seriously suspect that's why I have almost no useful sense of smell right now -- Easter weekend when I was eight years old, we were camping and my fold-out bed was next to or above the tiny stove and kitchen, and apparently the stove's fuel tank started leaking the night before Easter ... were my mother not in the habit of taking her cigarette breaks outside that tiny trailer, pieces of me and my family would still be orbiting the planet right now.
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Mo
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Mo » 22 Oct 2018, 18:16

JasonL wrote:
Mo wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 16:05
I was able to find a number of 3-4 bedroom flats in London. Granted, they weren’t the norm, but they weren’t rare.
How does it work there - are they leased or owned or rented or what?
There is an owner that I am renting from.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 22 Oct 2018, 18:56

I came across an interesting article on "what it's really like to live in a tiny house." The format was stupid, with way too many useless pictures, so I'm not going to bother to link it here. The points that jumped out at me the most were:

- everything gets worn and shabby a lot faster because it gets more concentrated traffic than in a larger house
- things like hampers and trash cans, which can be tucked out of the way in a larger house, suddenly become giant room features
- any kind of odor, especially cooking odor, permeates the entire house and lingers (this one would drive me batty so I would have to find a workaround for my fantasy stealth box truck house)
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lunchstealer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by lunchstealer » 22 Oct 2018, 19:07

Ellie wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 18:56
- any kind of odor, especially cooking odor, permeates the entire house and lingers (this one would drive me batty so I would have to find a workaround for my fantasy stealth box truck house)
Hell this is why I oppose 'open concept' which it's not a fucking concept but whatever. Cooking is a thing that has lots and lots of consequences, many of which are not protrimental to the things one does in a living room. This goes triple for kitchens without proper vent hoods that exhaust to the outside. Kitchens need doors. Always and forever.

I suppose I could deal with a tiny house if the cooking space and toilet spaces were strictly separated from the living space with a tightly-closing door and appropriate vent-to-outside ventilation.
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Jadagul
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jadagul » 22 Oct 2018, 19:11

I fantasize about having a lab-grade fume hood for my stovetop.

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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 22 Oct 2018, 19:13

Another thing about tiny homes is, even assuming an absolute best-case scenario (best-case meaning, your personality and the personalities of everyone who'll live with you are absolutely PERFECT for tiny-house living: nobody actually likes "owning stuff," nobody wants to keep any sentimental-value items bigger than a photograph, the inability to keep and store more than a day's worth of food at a time is no biggie, nobody cares about privacy or a space of one's own, etc.), I still don't see how it would work unless you lived someplace where the climate is pleasant enough for everyone to spend pretty much all their non-sleeping time outdoors all year round--which also means a climate consistent enough that everyone needs only one wardrobe for the whole year, rather than a wardrobe of hot-weather clothes AND a completely different wardrobe of cold-weather clothes and etc.
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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 22 Oct 2018, 19:22

lunchstealer wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 19:07
Ellie wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 18:56
- any kind of odor, especially cooking odor, permeates the entire house and lingers (this one would drive me batty so I would have to find a workaround for my fantasy stealth box truck house)
Hell this is why I oppose 'open concept' which it's not a fucking concept but whatever. Cooking is a thing that has lots and lots of consequences, many of which are not protrimental to the things one does in a living room. This goes triple for kitchens without proper vent hoods that exhaust to the outside. Kitchens need doors. Always and forever.
Our kitchen lacks a proper vent hood that exhausts outside. I hate it. There have even been a few times that I've woken up in a panic because I thought I smelled something weird or on fire, and it was just David downstairs home from work at 1am making (not even burning) dinner.

We don't need to completely return to the olden days when kitchens were in buildings separate from the rest of the house, but I wouldn't hate a move in that direction. :mrgreen:
Jennifer wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 19:13
I still don't see how it would work unless you lived someplace where the climate is pleasant enough for everyone to spend pretty much all their non-sleeping time outdoors all year round
This is funny to me because it's exactly why I think we'd be good candidates for tiny house / stealth truck living -- we all spend all our waking non-office hours sitting around indoors in the living room together, so why not do it someplace we don't have to pay a mortgage on? :lol:
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lunchstealer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by lunchstealer » 22 Oct 2018, 19:30

Jadagul wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 19:11
I fantasize about having a lab-grade fume hood for my stovetop.
My current kitchen has an aftermarket above-stove microwave. They took out a vent hood that clearly vented to the outside - the holes are still there in the cabinetry above the microwave, and you can see where they patched the ceiling - and replaced it with a microwave with a 'vent' fan that just blows back out into the kitchen. Also, the cabinetry were designed for a maybe six inch deep hood that extended partway over the front burners and which was a good 18" to 24" above the burners, whereas the microwave fan intake is barely more than a foot over the back two burners and does nothing for the front burners. The stove is kind of cheap, so the only large burner is on the front. The vent fan is completely useless, and there's a patina of grease all over everything within x feet of the stove no matter what I do while cooking. There are things I legit cannot get clean.

We're looking at the possibility of buying a house, and I keep seeing places that have been remodeled to have big fancy home-chef gas ranges on islands and peninsulas between the open and airy kitchen and the open and airy livingroom with no goddamned hood or venting at all. What the fuck people.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 22 Oct 2018, 19:39

Ellie wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 19:22
Jennifer wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 19:13
I still don't see how it would work unless you lived someplace where the climate is pleasant enough for everyone to spend pretty much all their non-sleeping time outdoors all year round
This is funny to me because it's exactly why I think we'd be good candidates for tiny house / stealth truck living -- we all spend all our waking non-office hours sitting around indoors in the living room together, so why not do it someplace we don't have to pay a mortgage on? :lol:
I know you're snarking, but I'll pretend you're being 100% serious: you and David might be okay with just "sitting around" (watching TV, working on the computer, etc.), but it'll be YEARS before your kids outgrow their "excess energy to burn" phase. Here's the math: You + David + four toddlers + brutal Minnesota cold snap + 400 sq ft total including the space occupied by furniture and stuff = everybody goes COMPLETELY FUCKING INSANE.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 22 Oct 2018, 19:49

I'm being lighthearted but I'm definitely not snarking! That's literally our life right now (albeit with three kids only) -- especially on days when David's at work and I'm couchbound by pregnancy fatigue, or when the weather is cold and rainy. We all stay in the living room alllllllllll day. And it actually works for us! Some families might go nuts, but we were all born to be couch potatoes.
"NB stands for nota bene do not @ me" - nicole

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