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Eric the .5b
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Oct 2019, 03:54

Jennifer wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 20:03
Sure, but while our ancestors' basic biological needs were met, I daresay many would find it difficult if not impossible to meet certain standards required to belong to modern mainstream American society -- such as, your clothes need to be a certain level of cleanliness and non-stinkyness that you can NOT meet by "wearing the same outfit every day, and washing it once a week," even though that was the norm for pretty much everybody other than the ultra-rich until barely more than a century ago.
I don't even know how washing works in tiny houses. Though Hong Kong, to my knowledge, has similar cleanliness/wardrobe size requirements and some tiny apartments that fall between "coffin" and "berth on a ship". (Whether many tiny house owners drop by washaterias, I dunno...)
Jennifer wrote:
07 Oct 2019, 20:03
For many people in "normal size" homes, yes (I include myself in this -- like, Jeff and I could get by with less kitchenware than my too-small kitchen holds, but I do not want to, in part because I LIKE having enough pots and pans that I have clean ones to use even when others are still dirty) -- but that doesn't sound like what the author of that piece is talking about:
It’s small enough that doing anything—getting the vacuum from a tiny closet or something out of a drawer in the kitchen—often involves a Tetris-like game of moving multiple other things out of the way. Right now, because I have one chair too many, lowering my Murphy bed from the wall means moving the chair, which then blocks something else.
I submit that it is what's wrong, and they even say the specifics of why in one case—at least one chair too many. If you're having to rearrange things in order to open a drawer, you've got too much stuff laying or stacked around. That amount of stuff may be useful in other contexts or bigger places, but if you have to rearrange the stuff laying around to open a drawer, it's cluttered.

I mean, I'm not saying it's unreasonable to try to de-clutter and go, "No, I can't get rid of any more, and so I just need a bigger space than this." But that's somewhat different from actually getting belongings down to a manageable level in a tiny place and liking that (or not). A place that small requires a lifestyle adaptation, just like living in a cabin in the woods, on a boat, etc.. That adaptation won't be desirable to all people, but other people will like it once they accomplish it. There are people who do like their tiny houses, even if that means they're weirdos.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 08 Oct 2019, 04:31

Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 03:54

I submit that it is what's wrong, and they even say the specifics of why in one case—at least one chair too many.
If the photos in the story are any indication, that "one chair too many" is literally the only chair in the house.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Oct 2019, 05:40

Jennifer wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 04:31
Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 03:54

I submit that it is what's wrong, and they even say the specifics of why in one case—at least one chair too many.
If the photos in the story are any indication, that "one chair too many" is literally the only chair in the house.
That may be! :D

Which suddenly makes me wonder why so few tiny homes seem to have tatami (or otherwise cushioned) floors that you could just plop down on for seating or even throw down a thin futon for sleeping. A lot of them lose a lot of space to kitchens with center-aisles and bathrooms where you wouldn't want that, but they usually seem to have living/dining areas that could be compatible with it.

At a guess, instantly-accessible shelves and cabinets under most of the seating area would be a loss. You could have storage under tatami mats, but you'd actually have to lift up a mat to get under it, which wouldn't be a lot of trouble, but would change that storage from "handy shelves" to "where we pack things away". And there are probably other issues I'm not aware of.

(Though, googling, I can find at least one example, so it might not be the worst idea. The drawers under the edge of the seating area are a nice touch. Though the writer seems unaware of the whole "putting futons on the tatami to sleep on" thing. Or maybe the owner just really likes firm beds...)
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 Oct 2019, 10:48

If your tiny house isn't capable of sailing from port to port, you've missed the entire point.

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JD
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by JD » 08 Oct 2019, 12:08

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 10:48
If your tiny house isn't capable of sailing from port to port, you've missed the entire point.
Because what a tiny house is really missing is added expense and the risk of drowning! (just kidding - I like boats too)
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 08 Oct 2019, 15:27

I could never live on a boat. Everything is constantly rusting, never mind that deep water terrifies me.

To each their own, have fun juggling geese on your catamaran, but I need my tiny house set firm on good clean dirt!

(edited to add: I have been reading a bit on sailboat-building forums because they have better ideas for drawers and doors that stay shut when your tiny house is moving around. Nobody in the vanlife community seems properly nervous at the idea that you could get into a car accident and find all your hipster mason jars and everything on your magnetic knife strip suddenly flying at your head.)
"2019 has got to stop injecting dmt straight in the dick hole." - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Oct 2019, 18:40

Ellie wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 15:27
(edited to add: I have been reading a bit on sailboat-building forums because they have better ideas for drawers and doors that stay shut when your tiny house is moving around. Nobody in the vanlife community seems properly nervous at the idea that you could get into a car accident and find all your hipster mason jars and everything on your magnetic knife strip suddenly flying at your head.)
Yeah, the only van-lifer I've seen who seemed to design for driving was that guy I liked above.

True and nightmarishly tiny homes: The "Coffin Houses" of Hong Kong, along with their horrifying prices. I have to wonder how much of that is people in Hong Kong being (rightfully) scared to move anywhere else in China.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
Cet animal est très méchant / Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 08 Oct 2019, 21:26

Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 18:40
True and nightmarishly tiny homes: The "Coffin Houses" of Hong Kong, along with their horrifying prices. I have to wonder how much of that is people in Hong Kong being (rightfully) scared to move anywhere else in China.
I've seen those before and yeah -- they're horrifying. Definitely a "bare minimum for survival" thing that only offers a place to sleep, plus storage for an extremely small amount of possessions. Every other biological necessity has to be met off-site: food, drink, bathing/hygiene, using the toilet... ugh. It's one thing to do that temporarily, especially if you have a REASON to do so (Navy submariners have as little or less* personal space when actually living on-sub; I could see myself agreeing to live like that* for a limited time, if it were something like "I got a really awesome, high-paid job offer to spend a season at the South Pole")... but to have that actually be your permanent life? (Shudder)

*EDIT: Except for the whole "at minimum, the bunkspace must be big enough for you to stretch out full length." It is for the submariners (at least in my 6-foot-something dad's day, and it would surely be for my much shorter self. Though IIRC some of the Hong Kongers can't even do that.
Ellie wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 15:27
(edited to add: I have been reading a bit on sailboat-building forums because they have better ideas for drawers and doors that stay shut when your tiny house is moving around. Nobody in the vanlife community seems properly nervous at the idea that you could get into a car accident and find all your hipster mason jars and everything on your magnetic knife strip suddenly flying at your head.)
Since I'm the worrywart type, I'd also be concerned about the inevitable day the van requires some type of repair that definitely requires time spent in a repair shop: it's one thing to go a day or two without your source of transportation, but to also be without your home and all your possessions save what you can carry on your own person is another thing altogether.

I spent quite a bit of time in camper-trailers and things as a kid -- my family stayed in "campground resort" places rather than hotels when on vacation, plus there was the between-houses summer when we lived in a VW van (I slept in the poptop) -- and, while the kitchen tools and things would be "spread out" throughout the trailer while we were actually in camp, everything would be packed away and secured in boxes and cabinets before actually driving anywhere.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 09 Oct 2019, 15:37

Technically this is a thoroughly unrelated story, except it does touch upon something else that occurred to me when contemplating tiny-house life (especially in places like California): to fight or prevent wildfires, PG&E (the power company) is shutting down electricity to various places -- some neighborhoods/cities are expected to be left powerless for up to five days.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/california- ... 500945.php
California’s wildfire crisis will enter an unprecedented new stage Wednesday as PG&E plans to begin cutting power to about 800,000 customers, shutting down the electric lines that have sparked many of the state’s worst blazes and setting off a chaotic scramble of people preparing for an outage that could last a week in some places.

As word spread Tuesday of the preemptive shut-off — which is set to hit the Bay Area at noon — those in the locations expected to go dark stockpiled water and canned food and emptied store shelves of batteries for flashlights and cell phones. They made a run on gas pumps, causing lines that sometimes extended for blocks. And they hurried to help loved ones whose medical needs require electricity.
I know Californians are advised to have "earthquake kits" in case The Big One hits, just as Midwesterners should have tornado supplies and coastal denizens should have hurricane supplies and so on. But tiny houses don't leave a hell of a lot of space for surplus storage, and the idea "It doesn't matter if I can't cook or store much food on-site, because I 'outsource' my food needs via daily grocery runs or eating in a restaurant" doesn't work if those businesses are all shut down for lack of power.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Mo
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Mo » 10 Oct 2019, 05:39

Eric the .5b wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 18:40
Ellie wrote:
08 Oct 2019, 15:27
(edited to add: I have been reading a bit on sailboat-building forums because they have better ideas for drawers and doors that stay shut when your tiny house is moving around. Nobody in the vanlife community seems properly nervous at the idea that you could get into a car accident and find all your hipster mason jars and everything on your magnetic knife strip suddenly flying at your head.)
Yeah, the only van-lifer I've seen who seemed to design for driving was that guy I liked above.

True and nightmarishly tiny homes: The "Coffin Houses" of Hong Kong, along with their horrifying prices. I have to wonder how much of that is people in Hong Kong being (rightfully) scared to move anywhere else in China.
You also need government permission to leave (or enter) Hong Kong.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 10 Oct 2019, 09:21

Jennifer wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 15:37
I know Californians are advised to have "earthquake kits" in case The Big One hits, just as Midwesterners should have tornado supplies and coastal denizens should have hurricane supplies and so on. But tiny houses don't leave a hell of a lot of space for surplus storage, and the idea "It doesn't matter if I can't cook or store much food on-site, because I 'outsource' my food needs via daily grocery runs or eating in a restaurant" doesn't work if those businesses are all shut down for lack of power.
That's a good point and a good thing to keep in mind! Especially the food storage part. I don't see a lot of tiny homes / vans / skoolies with much dry goods or canned goods storage.

The flip side is many (though by no means all) tiny houses are built with solar power and propane stoves so they can weather the cooking side of a blackout more easily than a "sticks and bricks" resident.
"2019 has got to stop injecting dmt straight in the dick hole." - dhex

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 10 Oct 2019, 11:44

Ellie wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 09:21
Jennifer wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 15:37
I know Californians are advised to have "earthquake kits" in case The Big One hits, just as Midwesterners should have tornado supplies and coastal denizens should have hurricane supplies and so on. But tiny houses don't leave a hell of a lot of space for surplus storage, and the idea "It doesn't matter if I can't cook or store much food on-site, because I 'outsource' my food needs via daily grocery runs or eating in a restaurant" doesn't work if those businesses are all shut down for lack of power.
That's a good point and a good thing to keep in mind! Especially the food storage part. I don't see a lot of tiny homes / vans / skoolies with much dry goods or canned goods storage.

The flip side is many (though by no means all) tiny houses are built with solar power and propane stoves so they can weather the cooking side of a blackout more easily than a "sticks and bricks" resident.
Plus when their tiny houses get blown away to Oz by the tornado, they're less likely to unintentionally start a blood feud with a family of witches.

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 10 Oct 2019, 23:07

Tonight's tiny house show family comprised a young, white couple (him bearded, her blonde) who own a "functional fitness" gym (Crossfit with the serial number filed off), and their three young children named Paisley, Stetson, and Shepler.

Image
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Jennifer
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Jennifer » 10 Oct 2019, 23:34

Ellie wrote:
10 Oct 2019, 09:21
Jennifer wrote:
09 Oct 2019, 15:37
I know Californians are advised to have "earthquake kits" in case The Big One hits, just as Midwesterners should have tornado supplies and coastal denizens should have hurricane supplies and so on. But tiny houses don't leave a hell of a lot of space for surplus storage, and the idea "It doesn't matter if I can't cook or store much food on-site, because I 'outsource' my food needs via daily grocery runs or eating in a restaurant" doesn't work if those businesses are all shut down for lack of power.
That's a good point and a good thing to keep in mind! Especially the food storage part. I don't see a lot of tiny homes / vans / skoolies with much dry goods or canned goods storage.

The flip side is many (though by no means all) tiny houses are built with solar power and propane stoves so they can weather the cooking side of a blackout more easily than a "sticks and bricks" resident.
I just realized: if you imagine some alt-universe, single version of me who is not only willing but happy to embrace minimalism, try the tiny house life and give up the majority of my "luxury/unnecessary" stuff -- books, toys, decorations, most furniture, most kitchenware, maybe 90 percent of my clothes, etc. -- and only keep the barest minimum necessities including my emergency-supply kit (prepared according to FEMA recommendations to "shelter in place" for 14 days)... I couldn't, because that emergency kit alone (not even counting food, just the water, batteries, battery-operated devices, heating candles, etc.) would likely crowd out the entirety of an ultra-miniature house. Even assuming I had solar power to eliminate the need for batteries, lanterns, radio, flashlights, fans, ice/coolers and so forth, water is both non-negotiable and bulky as hell.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Ellie
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Re: Home $weet Home

Post by Ellie » 12 Oct 2019, 01:53

Tonight's tiny house owners: a white, hetero, couple who are both artists and construct a terribly twee, whimsical steampunk home for themselves. (I would love to make dhex take a tour of their space.) Their most baffling (and thus most delightful to my black and judgy heart) decision was to make their sleeping space a small loft, above their window AC unit, and then wall it in and insulate it for sound-dampening purposes. Do you not realize how fricking hot it is going to get up there?????
"2019 has got to stop injecting dmt straight in the dick hole." - dhex

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