Horrible, Offensive Geekery

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Eric the .5b
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Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 18:26

For just that - things that are geeky that are in some way, shape, or form appalling...

...And that you have zero shame about.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 18:41

The other day, I wrote Twilight fanfic.

By way of context, it was on a forum where people were throwing out meta-fictional, revisionist takes on fictional canons - ie, what if the Star Wars movies were actually some sort of movie in the Star Wars setting? Lots of takes involving historical propaganda and dubious biographies, naturally. I get all revisionist on the sparklepires here (which should be visible without an account).

What might be even more horrible is that I may have dragooned my friend Alex into helping me with this assinine bit of high concept: an Star Wars in-setting podcast (which may just be written) set 50-60 years after the events of the original trilogy, with the two hosts talking various crap from the Expanded Universe as if it were all science fiction of the post-war period.

Mind, we started looking at the timeline on Wookiepedia and realized that the Expanded Universe is just silly, even more so than we realized or remembered. On the other hand, all the repetition (how many galaxy-wide wars did the "peaceful Republic" have?) and one-upsmanship ("No, this Imperial weapon is even more powerful than either Death Star!" "Pfft, this one is even more awesome!") makes for very identifiable trends. All those cloned Emperors and resurgent Imperial holdouts threatening the Republic become an expression of anxiety in an uncertain peacetime. The Yuuhzan Vong are totally an Invading Yellow Peril equivalent. The list goes on.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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thoreau
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by thoreau » 26 Apr 2012, 18:52

Yeah, what little I know about the Expanded Universe is pretty ridiculous. If I lived in the New Republic, after seeing so many members of the Skywalker/Solo family go over to the Dark Side in various ways, and after seeing an invasion from another galaxy, I'd probably be longing for the stability and security provided by an Emperor who can shoot lightning from his hands, who tolerates no rivalry from other Force users, and who has battle stations large enough to destroy planets. Yeah, sucks to be on the planet that he destroys, but with that sort of weaponry he could probably fend off invaders from other galaxies.

In other words, I'd be the reporter throwing shoes at Luke Skywalker.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 18:56

thoreau wrote:Yeah, what little I know about the Expanded Universe is pretty ridiculous. If I lived in the New Republic, after seeing so many members of the Skywalker/Solo family go over to the Dark Side in various ways, and after seeing an invasion from another galaxy, I'd probably be longing for the stability and security provided by an Emperor who can shoot lightning from his hands, who tolerates no rivalry from other Force users, and who has battle stations large enough to destroy planets. Yeah, sucks to be on the planet that he destroys, but with that sort of weaponry he could probably fend off invaders from other galaxies.

In other words, I'd be the reporter throwing shoes at Luke Skywalker.
But hey, the New Republic would fall apart in your lifetime, to be replaced by a new system run by the former ruler of the Imperial Remnant, so there you go. :D

(It's so bad.)
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Hugh Akston » 26 Apr 2012, 19:13

Eric the .5b wrote:The other day, I wrote Twilight fanfic.
Image
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 19:18

Hugh Akston wrote:Image
Ain't ashamed. I've already gotten one, "I'd read Twilight if it were like that," from a friend, despite the stumbly prose, there. :)
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Kolohe
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Kolohe » 26 Apr 2012, 19:23

thoreau wrote:Yeah, what little I know about the Expanded Universe is pretty ridiculous. If I lived in the New Republic, after seeing so many members of the Skywalker/Solo family go over to the Dark Side in various ways, and after seeing an invasion from another galaxy, I'd probably be longing for the stability and security provided by an Emperor who can shoot lightning from his hands, who tolerates no rivalry from other Force users, and who has battle stations large enough to destroy planets. Yeah, sucks to be on the planet that he destroys, but with that sort of weaponry he could probably fend off invaders from other galaxies.

In other words, I'd be the reporter throwing shoes at Luke Skywalker.
Or vote for the Palpitinicans that retook the lower Galactic Parliament house two years after the Battle of Endor. (with the rallying cry "Get The Force OUT of My Medicare")
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Warren
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Warren » 26 Apr 2012, 19:24

My geek achievements are so trivial I'm embarrassed.
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Rachel
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Rachel » 26 Apr 2012, 19:46

I could tell you, but I even offend myself.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 19:56

Rachel wrote:I could tell you, but I even offend myself.
Aww, pleeeease!
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by dhex » 26 Apr 2012, 20:36

Cloned emperors?
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 21:17

dhex wrote:Cloned emperors?
Oh, yeah. Apparently, there were some small number of tie-in novels set after Return of the Jedi where the Force ghost of the Emperor inhabited clone bodies he'd set aside for just that eventuality. Luke Skywalker or someone would kill him off, he'd come back. Someone had no understanding of "anticlimax".

My thought is that, treated as fiction within the setting, it's the same sort of theme as clones of Hitler or Hitler's brain in a jar.

I've never been big on media tie-in novels and such for any property, but Star Wars has gone truly weird places with the EU. I mean, we can just start with the idea that the New Republic just can't work, and that only an Imperial-influenced system can run things. Beyond just the crazy politics (especially considering that the Galaxy had managed a mostly-working representative system for 25,000 years), how does anything that tone deaf to the original freedom-vs-tyranny struggle of the whole franchise make it in?

If we do the podcast thing, I'm totally going to make whole "doomed Republic" thing be the work of a few prominent writers who were imperial apologists.

(To his credit, Lucas has always ignored 99.9% of the EU and has specifically shat upon quite a bit of the stuff set after the movies.)
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 21:31

Similarly, I'm also going to make the idea of a resurgent Galactic Republic be a major fictional theme, on the order of the SF assumption of a single Earth government in the near future. My current outline is that the Empire falls over like a stack of cards after Return of the Jedi, but various tensions meant that nobody really trusted anyone else to re-establish the Republic. For that matter, for a lot of people alive, there wouldn't be a clear distinction between the "Old Republic" and "The Empire", as Palpatine had power for a couple of decades before dissolving the Senate - and more to the point, neither was particularly important in day-to-day life. Many or most people probably felt the war more directly than anything Palpatine did between the Clone Wars and fighting the Rebellion.

So in the end, a number of smaller republics crop up, as well as many other even smaller polities. A few small wars happen between some factions, but nothing major. The half-century or so since the end of the Empire hasn't been perfect, but it's been more peaceful per capita than the analogous period of Earth's history since WW2.
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thoreau
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by thoreau » 26 Apr 2012, 21:37

So, if Lucas himself ignores it and shits on a lot of it, how do Star Wars geeks decide what is canon and what isn't? Who is the Pope Jedi Master, who decides on what is canonical?

As for the idea that the new Republic just can't work, I basically agree with Eric: The Old Republic worked for 25,000 years. There's very little in the prequel movies that really gives us an indication of what was so unstable about the Old Republic. I know that Jadagul posted something at some point with some reading-between-the-lines-of-the-prequels to explain it, but that is still just an interpretation. (So, just, like, your opinion, man.) There's very little in the movies that makes it at all clear.

The only indication that there was something rotten in the Old Republic is that it was apparently fragile enough that (1) a secessionist movement (apparently led by the merchant class rather than oppressed* minorities of one sort or another) could be sustained and (2) the war sent everybody running into the arms of a dictator. I mean, yeah, these are common enough things in the real world, but usually the secessionists have some sort of obvious grievance, e.g. "My homeland has been occupied by these infidels. And they desecrate our holy sites. And they steal the mineral wealth." Or whatever. Nobody ever makes clear what the secessionists had against the Old Republic. And usually the public runs into the arms of a dictator after suffering some sort of trauma. The Clone Wars were remote events for most Galactic inhabitants, and they were fought by clones from some planet that nobody had ever heard of, not by Brave Men And Women from your own neighborhood. There was no televised 9/11 to fuck with minds. The Republic had not previously lost a war and been forced to pay devastating reparations. And so forth.

The one thing that could arguably have fucked the minds of the Galactic citizens was the attack on Coruscant at the beginning of Episode 3, but that is never played up. There's no sense of WHY the Galaxy is ready to embrace a dictator, nor is there any sense of trauma, or even some sort of sense of decadence that would cause people to so frivolously give away their freedom.**

*There's no indication that merchants were oppressed, unless one takes an "Atlas Shrugged" view of taxation in the Old Republic, but that's not to be found anywhere in the story. And, yes, the Trade Federation had a lot of non-humans, but the Empire was even more human-supremacist than the Old Republic. So it isn't obvious that it was a "We hates the human domination!" thing that motivated them.

**I would argue that 9/11 was, ultimately, a pin-prick, and our grossly disproportionate response is a sign of our decadence, part of the same psychology that Lenore Skenazy of Free Range Kids blogs about. There's no sign of that in the culture of the Galaxy. I mean, it might be there, but the story never gives us that. We literally have no clue why this society is dissolving.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by thoreau » 26 Apr 2012, 21:40

Eric the .5b wrote:For that matter, for a lot of people alive, there wouldn't be a clear distinction between the "Old Republic" and "The Empire", as Palpatine had power for a couple of decades before dissolving the Senate - and more to the point, neither was particularly important in day-to-day life. Many or most people probably felt the war more directly than anything Palpatine did between the Clone Wars and fighting the Rebellion.
Well, for humans. But not every species in the Galaxy was as short-lived as humans. When 800 years old you will be, look as good you will not.

And you make a good point about the relative unimportance of Palpatine in daily life. If you think of how many layers of government there would be between your moisture farm on whatever planet, and the Galactic Government, well, Palpatine is pretty distant.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by dhex » 26 Apr 2012, 21:42

Apparently, there were some small number of tie-in novels set after Return of the Jedi where the Force ghost of the Emperor inhabited clone bodies he'd set aside for just that eventuality.
i've often read people complaining about the extended universe - my only contact with it, i believe, would be the kotor games - but this prompted me to read up on the subject. so...luke and leia have babies and the babies are magic but sometimes evil and it just keeps going on and on? yeesh.
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Kolohe » 26 Apr 2012, 21:44

(1) a secessionist movement (apparently led by the merchant class rather than oppressed* minorities of one sort or another) could be sustained
Um, a secessionist movement led by the economic elite against an even more uber elite has happened twice just on the ground I'm sitting on now. The current win-loss record is 1-1.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 26 Apr 2012, 21:48

The cloned Palpatine thing was in the Star Wars: Dark Empire comic books.

They did stupid crap like making the Emperor so powerful that he could use the force to create a black hole, which is slightly more impressive than the Death Star.

As far as I read (which stopped way before the Yuuzhan Vong showed up), the Zahn books are the best and the Stackpole books are entertaining enough. Most of the rest suck, though some one-offs were okay.

Heavy story game-wise, KOTOR was awesome and KOTOR II was fun if deeply flawed. I don't know if TOR is any good, or whether it will be the "WOW killer."
Last edited by Fin Fang Foom on 26 Apr 2012, 21:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 21:51

Dhex: most of the babies are evil or some shit.
thoreau wrote:So, if Lucas himself ignores it and shits on a lot of it, how do Star Wars geeks decide what is canon and what isn't? Who is the Pope Jedi Master, who decides on what is canonical?
There are basically identified, official levels of canon. They actually had a guy work it out. In practice, the "G-cannon" and "T-cannon" pay little or no attention to most stuff, which is "C-canon" or lower. :D
thoreau wrote:As for the idea that the new Republic just can't work, I basically agree with Eric: The Old Republic worked for 25,000 years. There's very little in the prequel movies that really gives us an indication of what was so unstable about the Old Republic.
Ehn...The Phantom Menace pretty much spelled out that the official government of the galaxy can't/won't respond usefully to the equivalent of Chicago invading Fargo. (Their first move being sending a couple of Federal Marshals to have a chat with the leaders of the Chicagoan forces.) But, I pretty much decided the system was doomed when I saw the vast council room. :D
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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 26 Apr 2012, 21:53

Eric the .5b wrote:Dhex: most of the babies are evil or some shit.
thoreau wrote:So, if Lucas himself ignores it and shits on a lot of it, how do Star Wars geeks decide what is canon and what isn't? Who is the Pope Jedi Master, who decides on what is canonical?
There are basically identified, official levels of canon. They actually had a guy work it out. In practice, the "G-cannon" and "T-cannon" pay little or no attention to most stuff, which is "C-canon" or lower. :D
How about, "it's only a movie, dorks!"

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 21:54

thoreau wrote:And you make a good point about the relative unimportance of Palpatine in daily life. If you think of how many layers of government there would be between your moisture farm on whatever planet, and the Galactic Government, well, Palpatine is pretty distant.
I actually think in my posited post-Jedi setting that it's a common political theory that dealing with the Rebellion kept Palpatine from actually being able to do much that affected most peoples' lives. If you weren't on some unfortunate planets that were blown up, bombed, or had millions press-ganged, at least.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 21:55

Fin Fang Foom wrote:How about, "it's only a movie, dorks!"
*points to the thread title* :)
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dhex
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by dhex » 26 Apr 2012, 22:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_ ... _TV_series

kotor 1 was great if you played evil; kotor 2 was great...for the parts they finished on time. still, i'll take a half completed obsidian game over a fully completed bioware game any day of the week.
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Kolohe
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Kolohe » 26 Apr 2012, 22:37

"currently on hold for budgetary concerns" seems to be an odd statement to be associated with George Lucas anytime after 1981.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Eric the .5b
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Re: Horrible, Offensive Geekery

Post by Eric the .5b » 26 Apr 2012, 22:46

Kolohe wrote:"currently on hold for budgetary concerns" seems to be an odd statement to be associated with George Lucas anytime after 1981.
Doesn't it?
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
"Cyberpunk never really gave the government enough credit for their ability to secure a favorable prenup during the Corporate-State wedding." - Shem

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