Rand Paul.....sigh.

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thoreau
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 08 Aug 2018, 14:31

Rand Paul, before going to Russia, asked Trump to write him a letter of introduction to Putin.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/rand-paul- ... 1533752234

In general I'm fine with Senators going to foreign capitals to develop relationships. It's a long-standing practice and probably a healthy one. But I'd be much less peeved at him if he didn't make a point of capitalizing specifically on the Trump-Putin relationship. He should be focusing on the institutional relationships between a branch of the US government and the Russian government, not the individual bromance between Trump and Putin.

Then again, Putin's popular with the GOP base and Rand Paul is a panderer...
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Eric the .5b » 08 Aug 2018, 16:47

That's just skeevy.
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thoreau
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 08 Aug 2018, 17:03

I just can't quite figure out what he thinks he'll get from this pandering. Does he see himself as a Presidential prospect in 2024 (or 2020 if shit goes down for the Trump administration)? Does he think pandering to Putin will help him in his re-election? IIRC he's not up for re-election by 2022, and I would not be placing long-term bets for or against Putin's reputation in the US. Not with stuff in a state of flux.

Or is this part of his family's penchant for raising money from the skeevier elements of the GOP base?
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Kolohe » 08 Aug 2018, 18:23

Why not all the above?
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Taktix® » 20 Aug 2018, 17:49

So this will be how Trump and his newly-minted stooge Rand Paul will coopt all the progress libertarians have made on criminal justice reform: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-rand- ... -manafort/

Also, did anyone catch Rand's little Moscow excursion a few weeks ago? The Ron Paul I used to think I knew would have disowned his traitorous ass...

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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 20 Aug 2018, 17:51

Standing up for a guy doing dodgy business may be the most libertarian thing Rand Paul has ever done.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Warren » 20 Aug 2018, 18:31

I'd be fine with it if I believed it was actual reform that would apply to everyone caught in the switches of our judicial system.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Hugh Akston » 20 Aug 2018, 21:47

Taktix® wrote:
20 Aug 2018, 17:49
Also, did anyone catch Rand's little Moscow excursion a few weeks ago? The Ron Paul I used to think I knew would have disowned his traitorous ass...
One positive thing I hope we can glean from the Trump era is fatally poisoning the idea of loyalty as a virtue and treason as a vice.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Eric the .5b » 20 Aug 2018, 22:08

Hugh Akston wrote:
20 Aug 2018, 21:47
Taktix® wrote:
20 Aug 2018, 17:49
Also, did anyone catch Rand's little Moscow excursion a few weeks ago? The Ron Paul I used to think I knew would have disowned his traitorous ass...
One positive thing I hope we can glean from the Trump era is fatally poisoning the idea of loyalty as a virtue and treason as a vice.
Dream on. "Dissent is a virtue" lasted right until November 2008.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Shem » 20 Aug 2018, 23:59

Hugh Akston wrote:
20 Aug 2018, 21:47
Taktix® wrote:
20 Aug 2018, 17:49
Also, did anyone catch Rand's little Moscow excursion a few weeks ago? The Ron Paul I used to think I knew would have disowned his traitorous ass...
One positive thing I hope we can glean from the Trump era is fatally poisoning the idea of loyalty as a virtue and treason as a vice.
Hehehe.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Dangerman » 21 Aug 2018, 14:00

Rand Paul doesn't even show up on my map anymore. He's entirely subsumed, lost to the swamp like Artax.

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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Jennifer » 06 Sep 2018, 16:20

At least Alternet knew to refer to Rand Paul as a "fake" libertarian, in their article headlined "Fake Libertarian Rand Paul Says Trump Should Use 'Lie Detector Tests' to Find Anonymous Op-Ed Writer."
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Eric the .5b » 06 Sep 2018, 16:28

Jennifer wrote:
06 Sep 2018, 16:20
At least Alternet knew to refer to Rand Paul as a "fake" libertarian, in their article headlined "Fake Libertarian Rand Paul Says Trump Should Use 'Lie Detector Tests' to Find Anonymous Op-Ed Writer."
And in the copy:
Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) has often billed himself as independent from the rest of the Republican Party, portraying himself as adhering to libertarian values that oppose excessive state power and overreach into the lives of the American people. Over the course of the President Donald Trump's, that self-image has been revealed as a mirage.
Bless that writer.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 06 Sep 2018, 16:29

What is up with Rand Paul trying to be Trump's bestest buddy? He's not up for re-election until 2022. Does somebody in the White House (or Kremlin) have blackmail on him? Were they all "Next time we send somebody more dangerous than neighbor with lawncare dispute?"
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Eric the .5b » 06 Sep 2018, 16:32

thoreau wrote:
06 Sep 2018, 16:29
What is up with Rand Paul trying to be Trump's bestest buddy? He's not up for re-election until 2022. Does somebody in the White House (or Kremlin) have blackmail on him? Were they all "Next time we send somebody more dangerous than neighbor with lawncare dispute?"
He's a putz who wants attention, but can only do that by 1) going against Blues or 2) sucking up to Reds.

Trump is Big Daddy Red right now, so there you go.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Jennifer » 06 Sep 2018, 16:35

Even when R. Paul the lesser was trying to promote his "libertarian," IIRC it was the brand of libertarianism which boiled down to "Not a penny of tax money must be spent on helping the poor."
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 06 Sep 2018, 16:37

And given his career, he definitely needs to prove something to Daddy. Point taken.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Shem » 14 Jan 2019, 13:06

Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul is going to Canada for hernia surgery

Which would ordinarily be a "who cares" situation, but for comments like this:
Rand Paul wrote:“With regard to the idea whether or not you have a right to health care ... It means you believe in slavery," Paul said in 2011. "You are going to enslave not only me but the janitor at my hospital, the person who cleans my office, the assistants, the nurses. … You are basically saying you believe in slavery.”
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 14 Jan 2019, 13:09

Apparently related to the injury from his scuffle over yard care.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by lunchstealer » 14 Jan 2019, 14:24

They almost certainly can't be in-network, and Canada does NOT just give free non-emergent-care to tourists and very recent immigrants (when my employer was transferring my job to Canada one of the things they pointed out was that they were including three months' medical insurance to cover the gap until I was eligible for Canada's single-payer system) so I'm not sure this has a lot of bearing on nationalized healthcare. He's gotta be paying out of pocket, which is pretty much the libertarian ideal.

BTW, single payer systems don't quite mean you have a right to healthcare, so much as a right to have someone offer to pay for healthcare, which is slightly different. It's much more theft than slavery. It's only slavery if you can force a particular person to be a doctor and to perform medicine as directed by someone else without - and this is they key bit - the option of saying, 'Take this job and shove it right up your own asshole til you can taste it,' and walking out the door with both arms throwing the finger on a swivel.

Taxation is theft. Spending tax money is transferring stolen goods. Theft is not slavery. They're two different crimes. I do wish Libertarians and libertarians and fellow travelers would stop conflating the two, because it makes things worse, not better.

Although in the strictest interpretation of 'right to healthcare' it does imply slavery as a possible outcome if you can legit compel someone to perform medicine on your behalf, especially over an extended period of time (I have little problem with saying, "Look, you can quit medicine tomorrow and walk away forever, but today you fucking treat the patient in front of you even if you don't like [homosexuals|blacks|communists|nazis|libertarians|other-disfavored-group] which fuck you I paid for my decoder ring so you can't confiscate it without violating my property rights.
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thoreau
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 14 Jan 2019, 14:37

All I know is that the US has plenty of state-of-the-art medical centers, and Rand Paul is a Senator and medical doctor. If anyone should be able to find a suitably cutting-edge US-based surgeon in this niche, it should be him, yet he's going to Canada. Yes, the highest-quality firstest-of-first-rate experts aren't exclusively in the US. And, yes, he's surely paying out of pocket.

Still, I have no doubt that he'd be happy to give a speech with strong statements about the Canadian system dis-incentivizing innovation and quality or whatever, and feed that raw meat to voters, donors, and think-tankers whose parties he'd like to hang out at.

Hypocrisy isn't the right word for it, but there's unquestionably some irony here.

(And maybe he just wants to add the cost of a trip to Canada to his lawsuit against the neighbor who attacked him.)
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Shem » 14 Jan 2019, 14:51

lunchstealer wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 14:24
They almost certainly can't be in-network, and Canada does NOT just give free non-emergent-care to tourists and very recent immigrants (when my employer was transferring my job to Canada one of the things they pointed out was that they were including three months' medical insurance to cover the gap until I was eligible for Canada's single-payer system) so I'm not sure this has a lot of bearing on nationalized healthcare. He's gotta be paying out of pocket, which is pretty much the libertarian ideal.
The point isn't "he's being socialist," the point is, "according to the principle he outlined, he's availing himself of slave labor, and going into a system he has described as inferior to do it." In Randland, this is no different than Russians paying for North Korean labor.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by thoreau » 14 Jan 2019, 14:58

A presumably private, cash-only Canadian hospital operating outside the system is hardly a violation of his principles.

What would be more amusing is, as I said, if he were to give a speech saying that systems like Canada crowd out innovation.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by Shem » 14 Jan 2019, 15:23

thoreau wrote:
14 Jan 2019, 14:58
A presumably private, cash-only Canadian hospital operating outside the system is hardly a violation of his principles.
It's private, but neither cash-only nor outside the system. They're grandfathered in, so they take private and public insurance both.
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Re: Rand Paul.....sigh.

Post by JasonL » 14 Jan 2019, 15:40

I think Rand Paul's comments are closer to morally right than morally wrong. If there are two of us and I have a right to health care and so do you who gets to make the other person provide their care. This is not a problem with public provision of healthcare per se, it's a problem with discussing such provisions as rights.

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